We didn’t need a memoir to tell us what a fuck up she was
Harris adviser says VP ran ‘flawless’ campaign
“I would posit she ran a pretty flawless campaign, and she did all the steps that [were] required to be successful,” she added. “And I think – obviously, we did not win, but I do think we hit all the marks.”
…
Nix, Harris’ campaign manager, also attributed Trump’s decision not to participate in any debate following the ABC News presidential debate on Sept. 10 as detrimental to the Harris campaign’s strategy of presenting the choice between Trump and Harris clearly to voters several times.
“I think that was hard for us to then get the attention that we would have liked to,” Nix said.
Well, there you have it. Perfect campaign. No notes. Just wish Trump had been willing to debate, because we all know the problem Harris had was getting her face out there.
If only our opponent hadn’t made a choice detrimental to us!
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It would be more of exactly the same except liberals would be at brunch, not noticing that it’s their party that is chasing down Haitian immigrants on a horseback or deporting immigrants in record numbers or having two back-to-back years of the largest increase of the unhoused. Every time Republicans shift further to the right Democrats are in lockstep right behind them to fill the void just left by Republicans. Did you think that Biden giving ice one of the largest federal increases of funding they have ever seen with the largest expansion of detention centers was going to go unused?
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Hallucinations would be the people doing the same thing over and over and over again and failing every time and always blame other people for their failures
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We all know you are more upset about not being able to go back to brunch so you don’t have to think about politics than you are about our current conditions
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I was never a big fan, but I was passionate about supporting her from the moment Biden stammered through that debate until this moment in her DNC speech: https://youtube.com/shorts/-UQliWnKnqY
This was the moment when she did the heel turn away from all the clever, momentum building moves that assembled a surprisingly left-friendly coalition. Everything after this was punching left and she lost as a result.
I still think Biden’s refusal to let go of the reins until way way too late is what doomed her primarily. As VP, she had to hold and defend Biden’s exact policies and positions, even the unpopular ones, while he was running. By the time he finally quit, she was basically stuck inside the rotting corpse of his campaign, having painted herself into a corner on every issue.
Imagine not being able to beat Hitler in an election
Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg, who ran as a left wing centrist. And at the time they were fighting against a bloc of left wingers and a small group of communists. Sound familiar?
Hindenburg, who ran as a left wing centrist.
There wasn’t anything “left-wing” about Hindenburg. He ran on maintaining the status quo - a status quo that was a rapidly deteriorating depression with very high unemployment. He represented business interests and was never going to do any of the major reforms that would’ve been necessary to save the republic (if anything could).
The social democrats decided to throw unconditional support to these centrist parties for the sake of stability. They didn’t seem to have any actual understanding of why conditions were deteriorating, why extremism was rising, or what needed to be done in order to address it - all they could ever think to do was support the bourgeoisie in order to buy time - in order to sleepwalk into fascism.
Naturally, as Hindenburg represented bourgeois interests, he was always going to side with the far-right against the left, if he had to choose. And, since conditions were declining with no plan to actually fix anything, he was always going to end up in the position of having to choose.
I would say that there are similarities, though, yes.
Article was a great read. This part really resonated with me.
It may seem petty to use this incident, but it does illustrate Harris’s expectation that the world should conform to her needs. Towels on the far side of the room? Someone else must fetch them. A slot as the Democrat presidential candidate that party leaders conveniently made sure would be uncontested by anyone else, a massively well-funded campaign that raked in over a billion dollars and the support of celebrities like Oprah and Beyoncé, a popular vice presidential candidate, a huge boost in the polls as soon as she stepped into the campaign… and, yet, somehow, her loss is still anyone’s fault but her own. Why are my towels on the other side of the room? Who will fetch them for me?
It really did feel that way in hindsight. That we all were just supposed to conform to her and not the other way around.
I remember Hacks on Tap talking about how their contacts were frustrated that Harris wasn’t out doing more national television interviews and that she wasn’t really putting herself out there. This feels like another example of the towel in the bathroom.
So… the Dem strategy was… run an insufferable, stuffy, haughty narcissist to counter a more bombastic, less classy, insufferable narcissist…???
Not for nothing, but trump wasn’t exactly out there either outside of the incel podcasts. She was a poor candidate and the funding bullshit meant she had to be the candidate. Fuck her, but fuck every protest non voter way more.
Edit: knowing I pissed off at least three of you you lazy fuckers makes me smile.
Edit 2: 8!
No FUCK Biden for continuing to run even though he was too damn old to. He should have passed the torch properly and allowed for primaries to happen.
He not only robbed us of a primary, he broke his one term promise.
And in doing so, shoved an uncharismatic center right candidate down our throats, whose only redeeming quality was not Trump.
Is that what democracy looks like?
he broke his one term promise.
Biden never made a one term promise.
Edit: "I don’t have plans on one term,” Biden told reporters
Okay so it wasn’t a promise, it was a leak from several of his aides that was probably calculated in order to help folks feel more comfortable electing somebody that’s 77.
The fact that he spoke out of both sides of his mouth, one being the mouth of several of his aides, doesn’t change my feelings about the man.
So even worse, he manipulated and deceived the entire electorate from the get-go.
Did Biden explicitly promise to be a one term candidate? No. But he personally implied it on many occasions, and he had his underlings spread the messaging of him as a one-term president in the press. His minions were out there in the media basing their entire pitch for his candidacy on the idea of him as a one-term caretaker president, running to restore normalcy.
He deliberately put the idea in the public consciousness that he would only run for a single term but without ever explicitly promising to do so. This way the bastard could get woo voters on the prospect of him making a graceful exit, but while still leaving his future options open. It was a Machiavellian move, and it ultimately blew up in his face and gave Trump a second term.
Maybe you shouldn’t believe rumors or speculation?
Don’t bother arguing with these idiots. The hivemind is almost as bad here as the “fuck spez” site.
Yes, but also fuck every protest non-voter even more.
Don’t care how much we get down voted! Fuck yeah this sentiment! Fuck all your protest non voters! I hope you read this and it makes you upset!
Edit: why am I twice as high as homie saying the same thing‽
Edit 2: that’s better, bring on the hate you lazy fuckers!
I think people forget that Harris only had a mere 15 weeks between Biden dropping out and election day to establish herself and try to bootstrap and run some kind of campaign that wasn’t just her wearing Joe’s skin. It’s insane that anyone expected her to win under those conditions and Biden could not have fucked us harder with his arrogance. Add to that the headwinds of her being a woman of color, not especially charismatic, and to the right of her base on many issues, and the outcome was written in stone from the start.
I always find it funny that the US sees 15 weeks as too short for making a campaign when in Europe we have 2 weeks for the European elections campaign.
If she had had more time, she would have lost even worse. The peak of her popularity was when people knew nothing about her. She just kept getting more unpopular as the election wore on.
The only scenario that Kamala could have won is if Biden had somehow dropped out just weeks before the election. Her only shot was to get elected before people really got to know her. She’s a deeply unlikable candidate.
Nuance on this site‽ Get out of here before the idiots start yelling “blue maga”!
The only reason Biden picked her for vice president was that she was a woman and black because she honestly ain’t a good politician in general. Her performance in 2020 is telling. I remember the CumTown podcast was constantly making jokes about her back then and they were still relevant in 2024.
I never understand comments like these. She was elected senator of California. She was an AG. Her list of accomplishments is available on Wikipedia for free. What does a black woman have to do to prove herself in this day?
Why else would he pick the least popular person who ran for the Democrat primary for vice president??? He straight up said that is why he picked the Supreme Court justice he picked and you can assume the same for Vice President. If you are going to pick someone for that position, then pick someone people actually like.
“he” didn’t pick nothing. Her candidancy was forced.
This comment just reeks of vibes. She’s extremely accomplished and intelligent. She wasn’t the most hilarious or charming person, but again, that’s not what I look for in a leader.
In 2020, she had all the time in the world, and she mismanaged things badly enough that she ended up dropping out before a single vote was cast. What happened in 2024 was purely advantageous to her, she got to skip the primary altogether and only had to keep it together for 15 weeks. Few people in history have ever received such a privileged ramp towards the presidency.
The primary process is an additional hoop that a candidate has to jump through, they have to appeal to a different segment of the people than in the general, which may leave them having to pivot or backtrack on their positions. They may have to endure bad blood, or harsher criticism from people who had been invested in another candidate. You could say that the lack of the primary cost the Democrats the election but only in the sense that Kamala probably wouldn’t have won a primary and we’d have gotten someone better.
15 weeks is also plenty of time to get a message out. Other countries do much shorter campaign lengths. And in the current situation where most people are driven by “negative partisanship,” voting against the people they hate more, being relatively unknown (not that a VP is that unknown) can be advantageous.
The main thing was policy but she was also just an unpopular politician with bad political instincts (campaigning with the Cheney 's lol), and she basically got to fail upwards and bypass any of the checks that would’ve recognized that unpopularity before it was too late.
The funding is what was forced. And unfortunately the candidate with the most funding wins for the last two decades.
Palm trees are not actually trees, just tall bushes.
Look at Mr. Big Genius here!
What? She was a fantastic candidate! The fact she lost to someone so obviously bad just means she was bad at communicating to dumb voters. This is a widely known and predictable problem with Americans and you can’t blame her for that. So you see, she was the best person to not get the job. /s
People are missing your /s unfortunately lol
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It’s hard to blame the voters in the light of recent events.
Voters just handed the Democrats an insane mandate. Ignoring the voters and caving in to the fascists a week later sends a very clear message, “We don’t care about your vote.”
Actions speak louder than words.
We voted, they caved into Republicans.
We voted, they “had a stroke and suddenly are evil.”
We voted, they gave up.
But we’re the bad guys for learning from mistakes and not them, with teams of think tanks and backings of billionaires for polling dat?
Of course there were many foolish voters out there but it’s not good enough for a candidate to be not Donald Trump. The reality is that many people will stay home when they see dirty corporate politicians running for office. And you can blame the people all you want, but that doesn’t change reality, and they’ll still stay home.
I think what’s embarrassing is your approach. You saw 2016 and 2024 and you still haven’t learned from either of them. It turns out that people vote or don’t vote for a variety of reasons, and a simplistic approach like yours is a failed approach.
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And you can blame the people all you want, but that doesn’t change reality, and they’ll still stay home.
The problem with this logic, is that these are the options you have, and the DNC doesn’t care about this, so you, as not the DNC have 2 options. Support the democrats, or support trump.
All of the whining in the world won’t change this.
I think what’s embarrassing is your approach. You saw 2016 and 2024 and you still haven’t learned from either of them.
Why are you talking to that other commenter as if they are the DNC? They’re not the ones responsible for their political strategy.
and a simplistic approach like yours is a failed approach.
They’re taking the only logical option within their locus of control, and you’re acting like somehow they should have done what exactly?
If you are in a nation that has only two choices and one is a FASCIST, you are in a fascist nation without real choice. You are once again embarrassing yourself to the rest of the world with this endless team based bullshit.
IF THERE IS ONLY ONE “CORRECT” CHOICE THEN THERE IS NO CHOICE!
This is what you all get when you turn your whole system into a fixed 2 headed hydra for years and years, but when you needed to stand up and change the system you all instead point fingers and blame instead of doing anything.
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Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos.
Your nation is a joke and the rest of the world is done with your shit.
The rest of the world does the exact same shit. I don’t know why you types outside the US think you’re somehow immune to facism, bigotry, and economic exploitation. And i say this living outside the US
When did I state otherwise? I know every nation is not immune, that is why american exceptionalism is frustrating.
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Perfect, just like your leaders, you would prefer living in a make believe world then live in reality.
Clearly I have no “dog in this race” as if your shitstain of a nation is not in anyway involved with the world at all.
Oh but wait you can’t see this and for some reason trying to make blocking someone some sort of slight.
You are acting as if it was not trump the nominee you wouldn’t have the same rhetoric. The lesser of the two state evil logic didn’t start during Trump first compaign in 2016
I did not have the same rhetoric when Biden was in office, come now this is next level putting words in my past hypothetical mouth.
We agree that the two party system is and has been a total joke of a democratic system however.
I’m gonna be devil’s advocate here for a moment. I followed Mamdani’s campaign closely and I think he nailed it on the spot. You had two politicians running whereas one lied that he’ll reduce prices and make America great again and the other… did nothing for the most part. From the eyes of the average voter Kamala promised nothing but the status quo, and they wanted change. That’s how Dem strongholds flipped red during this election and how a lot of them went back to blue for the mid term elections. If she told her donors to get stuffed and worked for the working class instead of exploiting the working class she would’ve won.
What a mess we live in. Both options will fuck you over, only one of them will do it with lube.
It was a terrible campaign spoken to people who where/are hurting telling them they where actually in fact doing great.
It was worse then doing nothing, saying it was mostly nothing is being kind. Once again they just assumed they would win and forgot that people looking for any help will swallow lies over the safer status quo choice. That is why when the big man gamble blew up in their face they vote blue again. The real issue is this is why the dems never have to change, they don’t even oppose the other side anymore, they just wait to have their turn.
Watching this mess is just infuriating, seeing the endless exceptionalism and team based bullshit more so.
The fact of the matter is in an election where [ANYONE] vs FASCIST is the choices…
Sorry Blue Maga, you will never win just because you are Hitler (D) vs Hitler.
No no it’s somehow the left’s fault… Not left enough, that might be true though.
Truly, the amount of people on this website who will bend over backwards to push third party/protest votes despite all evidence that that is insanely naive and the equivalent to shooting their own legs off is insane.
Somehow, these people, after decades of it not working, think that the democrats losing will magically bring in progressive Valhalla, because they literally refuse to acknowledge that the very obvious solution, that is equivalent to eating your veggies and doing exercise, is that the democrats have to keep winning, and they have to keep voting in progressives through primaries, state and local politics.
Its extremely obvious to anyone who understand the 2 party supporting winner takes all/first past the post system they have.
Oh cool. Another Liberal completely blind to the internal workings of their chosen party. What pearls of wisdom do you have for us?
I voted for Kamala. This was the first time in 20 years that I’ve cast my vote Alone.
I rally everyone I can. And every time I had a rhetorical lever to remind my friends and family about the importance of this casual action, Kamala herself would rush to a camera to undermine everything I tried to say.
“End the genocide!” Well shit, she came out as a full throated Zionist. Her and her party did anything and everything to alienate everyone who views Palestinians as human.
“One genocide is better than two” well fuck, she promised to be harder on the border than a fucking Nazi.
“Trans survival rests on this” aaaand I watched her stand agast at any suggestion that she assert the reality that Trans Women are Women.
“We should codify Roe V Wade” and… Crickets from her.
People were hurting and the economy was in the toilet? All she could do was talk up Biden’s effort, sans evidence.
Her backers, her sponsors, her consultants, her party infrastructure all made sure she refused to stand for anything. Ever.
And I blame you Lemmings for allowing this shit for actual decades. You haven’t had a real Primary since 2008, and you call this Democracy?
Have the day you voted for - A half step up from the Maga reality of today, but with more concessions for Maga than even your own base or agenda.
The fact this is the type of shit that gets upvotes here is why you’re never pulling out.
You rant about democrats as if you choosing to lop your own legs off will make them so angry they’re suddenly going to do what you want.
You act like children, and ignore the obvious because it feels good to be angry at someone, and the democrats are the closest thing to being an org that will listen.
Instead though, you, as you admitted, in the most important election in your life, choose to stop caring.
Look at how childish all of your retorts are about all of the various things that she absolutely would not have specifically hurt if she had won.
You think she would actively be encouraging israel to flaten palestine?
You think she would be making ICE the actual gestapo?
As for Roe v Wade, how exactly do you expect democrats to do such a thing without a senate super majority?
You literally expect the impossible, and then give up and cry when you don’t get that.
Her backers, her sponsors, her consultants, her party infrastructure all made sure she refused to stand for anything. Ever.
Yet that was clearly the better option that shooting your own legs off.
How do you not realize that the DNC literally is incentivised to offer less and less if the country keeps flipping back and forth? Then, all they have to do is correctly assert that they are the non insane option, and offer to undo some of the damage done.
This is what they’ve done. This is what Biden has done, and somehow to you, you think that throwing a tantrum and literally getting marginalized people killed really got one over on the rich conservatives at the head of the DNC who will never see the inside of a grocery store.
And I blame you Lemmings for allowing this shit for actual decades.
What does this even mean exactly. You are clearly angry at some group you can’t actually specify.
This comment really reinforces how much you misunderstand your own system. You’d rather hurt people because you can’t get your idealistic wishes.
You think she would actively be encouraging israel to flaten palestine?
Of course , you sound very ignorant or just use palestinians for political reasons. Gaza is flatened because of the billions of dollars you give to israel and all the weapons they get which every single goddamn US war criminal presidents did since the creation of the terrorist state of israel so how the hell do you think Harris would stop doing that?
Of course , you sound very ignorant or just use palestinians for political reasons.
Its this type of insane take which makes it impossible to have useful discourse.
There are literally 2 options, and you would rather choose the one with the worse outcome because they both suck. Thats simply immature and self harming in nature.
Instead though, you, as you admitted, in the most important election in your life, choose to stop caring.
Again, I voted for her. I did everything I could to rally people to vote for her. And at every step of the way, she undermined my effort.
Glad to see your reading comprehension is just as deep as that of a Maga voter.
Do I expect her to accomplish anything? Nope, she’s a Democrat. Do I expect her to at least sell herself as a candidate? Yes, that’s the entire fucking point of an election.
How do you not realize that the DNC literally is incentivised to offer less and less if the country keeps flipping back and forth? Then, all they have to do is correctly assert that they are the non insane option, and offer to undo some of the damage done.
So… Concede to Fascists, and pretend that’s a winning strategy. Gotcha.
Given the choice between diet Hitler, and full flavored commitment? The country will choose the Marlboro Reds of Fascism for at least being consistent. This is not up to me.
You will accept whatever Slop the unDemocratic party gives you, and be okay because “at least its not 100% Hitler, we’re doing better!” As the country slides into Hell. This is your fault for pretending Reaganite madness is the Center, and everyone else is “insane Leftists”.
Meanwhile, Mamdani had a vision, and people mobilized behind it. Won his election by the largest margin in a NYC Mayoral race since 1968. Democrats win when turnout is High, and actually HAVING A PLATFORM drives turnout.
Where was your “blue no matter who” for Zohran? Oh wait, it doesn’t matter because the Party backed another friend of Epstein.
You people make me sick. I am actually having an easier time rehabbing Maga voters than talking to the people vote with at gunpoint.
I did everything I could to rally people to vote for her.
You mentioned that you did not “This was the first time in 20 years that I’ve cast my vote Alone.” Unless I misunderstood that to mean you expect me to believe that despite them losing less than 10% of their voter base, 100% of people you knew didn’t show up.
So… Concede to Fascists, and pretend that’s a winning strategy. Gotcha.
This is literally what you appear to be advocating for. Im utterly confused by this attempt to reframe things.
Given the choice between diet Hitler, and full flavored commitment?
Calling Kamala Harris diet hitler is lunacy.
You will accept whatever Slop the unDemocratic party gives you, and be okay because “at least its not 100% Hitler, we’re doing better!” As the country slides into Hell. This is your fault for pretending Reaganite madness is the Center, and everyone else is “insane Leftists”.
It seems you are clearly arguing in bad faith when you on one hand pretend that you voted for and supported Harris, yet on the other hand, say this.
These are not congruent thoughts.
One of these things must be a lie.
I mean look at this intensly obvious bad faith strawman argument: "and everyone else is “insane Leftists”.
Meanwhile, Mamdani had a vision, and people mobilized behind it. Won his election by the largest margin in a NYC Mayoral race since 1968. Democrats win when turnout is High, and actually HAVING A PLATFORM drives turnout.
What are you arguing against out of anything I’ve mentioned here.
Everything you say seems to be in bad faith.
You are arguing against a person who is not a part of the DNC, because you do not like the strategy of the DNC, as if its that persons fault. This is not a sane position to hold.
You people make me sick. I am actually having an easier time rehabbing Maga voters than talking to the people vote with at gunpoint.
You once again, describe yourself in the same group that you say makes you sick.
It once again seems like you must be lying.
You mentioned that you did not “This was the first time in 20 years that I’ve cast my vote Alone.” Unless I misunderstood that to mean you expect me to believe that despite them losing less than 10% of their voter base, 100% of people you knew didn’t show up.
Fascinating. So any disagreement must be “in bad faith” to you?
So… Concede to Fascists, and pretend that’s a winning strategy. Gotcha.
This is literally what you appear to be advocating for. Im utterly confused by this attempt to reframe things.
The very platform your politicians advocate for is concessionary, and I’m tired of pretending otherwise. All of them. From Chuck Schumer conceding on the Shutdown, to Obama just adopting Romneycare as his own? The party exists to fold to Republicans.
It seems you are clearly arguing in bad faith when you on one hand pretend that you voted for and supported Harris, yet on the other hand, say this.
Support? Now that’s a strong word. Voted for, advocated for in conversation? Your black and white thinking is showing.
You are arguing against a person who is not a part of the DNC, because you do not like the strategy of the DNC, as if its that persons fault. This is not a sane position to hold
You support the platform of the DNC, the party insiders by proxy when you continue to support their bullshit even a year after the election. I do not care that you are just as powerless over their internal processes as I am. You continue to express your Stockholm Syndrome for their failing agenda, even as an actually viable alternative presents itself.
Break out. Turn off the MSNBC, leave the KHive, go try on Hasan Piker as an entry point for your therapy.
Fascinating. So any disagreement must be “in bad faith” to you?
At this point there is clearly no good discussing anything with you when the very specific bad faith arguments you made have been pointed out precisely, but you choose to instead, again in bad faith, claim that its a meritless dismissal.
The very platform your politicians advocate for is concessionary, and I’m tired of pretending otherwise.
You also state you advocate for them though… where is your high horse unless you are lying.
All of them. From Chuck Schumer conceding on the Shutdown, to Obama just adopting Romneycare as his own? The party exists to fold to Republicans.
Partially because you keep letting them do so with your rhetoric that utterly fails to understand how this works. They love switching back and forth for this reason. Without the flip flopping, they could be arm twisted into being more progressive, but you somehow wish so badly you could punish them for not doing as you please that youd rather see exactly what you claim to hate.
Support? Now that’s a strong word. Voted for, advocated for in conversation? Your black and white thinking is showing.
This is you being completely unable to see nuance.
You are, at this point, saying that you pretty much agree with what I am saying, but want to bash me for some made up beliefs you have where every person who believes the clear fact that of the 2 options democrats are the correct ones also completely supports how the DNC operates, which obviously is false.
You support the platform of the DNC, the party insiders by proxy when you continue to support their bullshit even a year after the election.
What in the universe could this possibly mean. Are you suggesting that you will be supporting the republicans instead? Because it is one or the other, so this just goes back to your ridiculous assumption from above.
I do not care that you are just as powerless over their internal processes as I am. You continue to express your Stockholm Syndrome for their failing agenda, even as an actually viable alternative presents itself.
What viable alternative?
You speak in meandering riddles because ultimately your positions hold no merit. This is why all you can do is spout irrelevant rhetoric and specific criticisms against your views.
go try on Hasan Piker as an entry point for your therapy.
This says it all then doesn’t it. You follow a pretend socialist influencer and think that means that you are are supirior to everyone else despite being unable to grasp the viewpoints of others nor state your own clearly.
Its extremely obvious to anyone who understand the 2 party supporting winner takes all/first past the post system they have
Keep voting for the lesser of the two evils till there is nothing left to be saved. Trump won to begin with because the majority of americans though he was the lesser of the two evil
Keep voting for the lesser of the two evils till there is nothing left to be saved.
If you actually kept doing that you’d have not only much to be saved, but you’d eventually have a good option if following the rest of what I advise.
You types literally never have workable solutions. Your suggestions are all impractical hail marys because you refuse to acknoledge the actual solution is slow, and uncomfortable.
If you actually kept doing that you’d have not only much to be saved, but you’d eventually have a good option if following the rest of what I advise
The two-party system is like two competing loggers who keep abusing tree chopping. One may be slower than the other but at the end the day the forest will disappear . The damage of a bad administration may need multiple good administrations to repair all the damage.
Please tell me why would any of the two parties listen to any single issue you have if you will going to vote for them again and again anyway
the actual solution is slow, and uncomfortable.
Yes , making a viable 3rd party solution is very slow and unconfortable
Please tell me why would any of the two parties listen to any single issue you have if you will going to vote for them again and again anyway
I literally explained at the very start of this exactly how it works. You vote in more progressives into the party to change its goals. The goals of the DNC are what you hate.
The 2 party system, you hate too, and thats reasonable, but its the system you have, and you’re not getting away from it within a lifetime.
Yes , making a viable 3rd party solution is very slow and unconfortable
No. Its nonsensical, childish, and utterly dangerous for all the people you will be sacrificing just to fail to accomplish your goal.
Its an inherent flaw of 2 party systems. They do not support true 3rd parties because they do not have proportional representation. The end result of winner takes all/first past the post systems is such that you cannot simply make a third party, especially where the established party against the side you’ll be weakening explicitly plans to completely remove your ability to vote.
This is obvious. You keep wanting to scream and be angry at people for acknowledging the system as it is and not simply throwing tantrums because it isnt how they wish it to be.
You will die too, not just the marginalized people you are so willing to throw away if you allow for republicans to gain a almost certain permanent rein, which is what supporting a third party would do.
The best thing you could do is actually to prop up third parties splitting off of republicans if you actually wanted to see a change.
Look. I am not going to pretend that Kamala The Cop was some amazing candidate.
But she never stood a chance with, what, a three month campaign where much of the voting populace never even realized she was running? And a LOT of the reporting and commentary around this reeks of “she just isn’t charismatic” or “she is unlikeable” and all the dogwhistles involved.
If anything, it speaks poorly of her leadership potential that she was willing to be saddled with that mess of a non-campaign.
This is a perpetually idiotic take.
All the statistical evidence that we have, is that once Kamala was the candidate, her polling rose meteorically. Until she started to define herself as a candidate, when all we had were her words as former candidate to base her policy positions on, she was heading towards blue-wave-of-epic proportions territory. She named Walz as running mate and people thought they had someone to vote for herself
Then, during the convention, the definition began as a continuance of a corporate, Biden-esque, more-of-the-same, Democrat. They silenced Palestinian voices and shunned the progressive vote, while embracing Republicans and hawkish dem’s.
And her polling rapidly stagnated, then began to slide. As she slid further and further right, so did her polling.
Harris’ loss was not an inevitability, and to present it as such is to both misunderstand the political moment then, as it happened, and to misrepresent the ongoing political moment.
If Harris’ had ran on her 2020 campaign platform with Walz as vice, she wins. Hands down. The political pressure desperately seeking an outlet on issues like M4A, and so many other leftwing polciies isn’t new. Bernie got it started in 2016 and it never stopped growing. All she needed to do was step left and ride the wave. But she chose to make losing decisions. Her loss was not an inevitability and to present it as such is a form of lying.
Yup, all the momentum and revitalization of the democratic vote slowed to a crawl as soon the biden-esque political strategy got involved, caving on the Palestinian genocide, and by pretty much kicking Walz to the curb when it comes to PR. We could’ve been riding the “MAGA is just weird” all the way to polls, but neoliberealism had to fuck it all up again.
Her 2020 campaign wasn’t actually that good. She started with the same boost of optimism and then fell apart once she started defining specifics and every other statement was walking things back. She flamed out for a reason.
I agree with your statement here though. She had all the momentum and tools to win and flubbed it through actual choices, not some inherent insurmountable challenges.
The only time she looked strong in 2020 was when she pointed out Biden’s support for old racist policies. After that, she had nothing to say or to differentiate herself from the rest of the DNC corporate pack.
Taking campaign advice from her brother in law, the CLO of Uber, who is a big part of the gig economy which destroys workers rights, was also a huge red flag.
I still voted for her, but it was like choosing a shit sandwich over Hitler. I didn’t exactly want either one.
Both her husband and her campaign manager (her brother in law) are hard core zionists who pushed Harris to ditch the left. What those two wanted was support for israel, and that meant turning away progressives to get votes from the right. The only way those two were ‘losing’ would be if Harris or Trump won + turned left, which didnt happen. So they got an acceptable outcome. Harris chose her allies (and husband) badly.
I cant imagine a dem ever winning a pro genocide, anti american worker campaign, can you? I can easily imagine right wingers winning such a thing, and thats what happened. Republican voters will cheerfully turn out to harm people— and dems a bit less so. Some of you think thats a problem, and I dont think it is. I’m glad we’re not a party that wins based on embracing mass murder and war crimes.
Yeah, she also was going on about fracking.
Campaign was like “see, I’m left of Trump and he’s literally the devil. Never mind that I’m to the right of Nixon myself. Blue no matter who! Shame on you for not bothering to vote.”
I dislike Trump. I mean he’s evil and is trying to erase me.
But I hate Kamala. Because betrayal cuts deeper.
Well, she wasn’t going to be able to throw the election if she made herself popular.
Maybe, but actually moving left wouldn’t assure a victory either. If it became clear that Kamala was moving left, the DNC and the rich people in power would help Trump win through lots of propaganda on the news.
Kamala only wins via the progressive route if she gets lucky at countering both Republican and Democrat propaganda, like Mamdani.
Then stand true and lose well.
Down the road she took, you don’t even get to keep your self-respect.
Your strategy is literally the continuation of the same weak and ineffective DNC strategy we’ve had for decades.
Correct, if you define victory as benefiting the people of the country.
But if you define victory as helping yourself while pretending to help the people of the country, then the DNC strategy is unbeatable.
DNC consultants make tons of money no matter what.
When you’re a rich person, there’s no such thing as too much money.
Sure worked well for Mamdani.
But she never stood a chance with, what, a three month campaign
That was half her strength. Trump’s entire team was geared around shitting on Joe Biden. And then Joe Biden stops being on the ballot, sending oodles of oppo-research and Hunter Biden smears and god even knows what kind of October Surprise they had cooking down the toilet.
Biden dropping out and throwing up Harris in his place meant she was free to pummel Trump with negative ads while he had to fully reconfigure his campaign to attack someone who’d spent four years as a backbencher. And - early on at least - Harris capitalized on this well. She came in with a moderate Dem - Tim Walz - who defused some of the Zionist image built up around Joe. She spewed negative ads at Trump and Vance, leaning on the “they’re just weird” talking point that got plenty of mileage both on and off-line. She was a prodigious fundraiser, unlocking a ton of cash that Biden had left on the sidelines because he was too senile to call the mega-donors and ask for it.
And, as a tabula rosa, she (initially) ditched all of Biden’s first term baggage - his failure to secure student loan relief, his endless efforts at compromising with far-right Republicans, his pull-out of Afghanistan and dive into Ukraine, his just being a gross old fart who couldn’t talk good.
But then Harris had to take on a bunch of Hillarycrat advisers and tack to the right. She ditched Walz for Liz Cheney and Cindy McCain. She sucked up to the Silicon Valley Techbros as they lined up to knife her in the back. She repeatedly defended Joe Biden’s least popular policies. She undid everything that Biden dropping out was intended to accomplish.
If anything, it speaks poorly of her leadership potential that she was willing to be saddled with that mess of a non-campaign.
She never really had a choice. But that’s been the hallmark of her entire political career. Harris always just kinda blew where the wind took her. She shouldn’t have been VP to begin with, taking the job only because Biden confusedly promised a black woman VP when he was asked about his plans for a next SCOTUS pick.
But then she surrounded herself with some of the most abysmal neocon reject advisors $1.5B could buy. And she tanked her chances at becoming the First Woman President by running the Clinton Playbook that had cost her predecessor so two prior electoral defeats.
tabula rosa
It’s “tabula rasa” (meaning “blank slate”)
I think the short timeframe was ultimately a detriment, despite this. How many people Googled “who is Kamala Harris?” and “Did Joe Biden drop out?” on election day?
Yeah. The short time frame and trump not having years of insults ready were her only hope. But it was still a doomed endeavor because biden insisted on running until well past the last minute.
Turning a weakness into a strength is a good idea… but it doesn’t stop it from being a weakness.
The campaign came out of the gate punching and dominated the news cycle. Then they took pelosi’s advice and tacked right and immediately began to flounder.
Im not convinved the technofascists wouldve allowed a democrat win, but i don’t think it’s because kamala only had 3 months. Thats how long election campaigns are in civilised countries.
Flopped? It was incredibly close and if Elon did what he claimed she probably won overall. It’s only MAGAts that think it was a landslide.
When a team loses a basketball game by 1 point, literally every missed shot or turnover (or blown defensive coverage leading to an easy basket for the other side or foul leading to made free throws) could be pointed to as the “cause” of that loss.
So yeah, if she were an actual better politician she probably would’ve won with the cards she was dealt. But there were also dozens of other causes that would’ve made her (or an alternative candidate) win, all else being equal.
And it’s hard to see how a better politician would’ve ended up in that position to begin with. The circumstances of how Harris ended up as VP probably wouldn’t have happened if not for the specific way that her 2020 campaign flamed out.
Objectively the worst electoral map since the Republicans took California.
MAGAts and closeted misogynist.
Enough of America is racist, sexist or lazy enough to not vote for Harris and it got us in the position we are in now.
Ahh yes. This tired, losing canard.
America will vote for immigrants. It will vote for women. It will vote for black people. It will vote to defend trans people.
It doesn’t want to vote for apologists to corporatism.
Its very clear.
It’ll also vote for Trump who is King Capitalism.
What alternative did you provide them?
You do understand that your approach to rhetoric is fundamental to why Democrats lost and Trump won?
I’ve told you before that the reason Trump won is because people voted for him and others decided not to vote.
others decided not to vote
And why is that?
Because they didn’t give a shit if Trump won and did everything he said he would do.
As he is doing now.
Or, and this might be completely revolutionary towards your thinking…
Maybe how you approach politics is harmful and supports rightwing movements.
Race and gender had absolutely nothing to do with it. Democrat voters as a whole was trying to tell the party they are tired of old white rich men making decisions for them, she did absolutely nothing to differentiate herself from those old rich white men. Voters by and large said we have a red line and that red line is genocide but she continued anyway. His administration went on day after day after day telling us that the economy is good, we are not struggling when we could see in our day-to-day lives that yes we are struggling. The only message that sends is that they are not listening to us.
The DNC fucked around and found out
Lugging Cheney around was a wtf move.
Then why did America end up voting the polar opposite of everything you say they stand for then?
Democrats have told voters for generations there are only 2 choices to vote for. They exercised another right, abstain. If the party thought trump was a serious threat they would have primaried the senile guy that refused to step down
They exercised another right, abstain.
They should have voted and left the Presidential race empty on their ballots. All those down-ballotnstate and local races could have really made an impact. And strategists only care about the policy issues of likely voters.
Most people I’ve encountered that refused to vote for Biden or Harris voted downline
Glad to hear it. If I’m reading this correctly, only 13 districts nationwide split for Trump with Democratic candidates down-ballot. So to me that suggests far more people who refused to vote for Harris simply refused to vote outright.
Because there’s a vast and well supported propaganda ecosystem on the right keeping their enthusiasm for kicking the shit outta the queers up.
Elections are won by getting your voters excited to vote for you. Republicans did, Democrats didn’t.
Look. Everyone knows that there is nothing that Old White Rich Men want more than to elect a brown woman of asian descent. They HATE IT when you instead elect an Old White Rich (But Not Really) Man instead.
Fight the power!!!
So she threw intentionally for Israel. Checks out.
Well stop being right wing democrat
It is true that she didn’t have enough time to put together a viable platform, but if Biden had dropped out early enough for her to develop a viable campaign and platform, that would have meant a primary, and it’s doubtful she would have won that primary.
Even if she had won that primary, it’s still doubtful that she would have assembled a viable platform and campaign. The political cliques she was aligned with were diametrically opposed to the kind of policies that would have made a viable platform.
A break from neoliberal politics was necessary. But basically all of the institutional pressure for Biden to drop out came from neoliberal diehards who were pissed at him for deviating from that line slightly, the age thing was mainly just an acceptable cover story for the insiders. Haris got her chance by appealing to those groups and thus she was never going to challenge those interests.
Oh she never in 100 years would have won a primary. She was like rank 8 of 10 in the 2020 primaries, people do not like her
I voted for her but don’t like her.
Primarily, because of her stance on prison labor which is just slavery with extra steps.
Yeah, I voted for her too, as I would have voted for Biden or for a fucking Funko doll over Trump.
The voting public didn’t care about her, but she had good connections with relevant instructional actors. That’s why she was relevant. People like trump will keep winning until the Democratic Party, as a political institution, cuts those neoliberal actors out of the coalition. If the party doesn’t, democracy will fail in America, or they will be replaced by some new party, or both.
People complaining about voters not choosing her over trump, or people not being motivated by voting for her, are just feeding in to that dark future. The only way out is standing up and demanding better candidates, refusing to accept the lesser of two evils.
IMO she lost because her entire platform was:
- i’m a woman
- i’m non-white
- support trans rights
none of that tackles the cost-of-living crisis, none of that gives people an economic future.
To me her platform was:
- I’m not Trump
- I’m going to keep on doing what Biden was doing
- Republicans you should vote for me because I’m not that different than you
The bottom two is what really did her in. Being the status quo candidate when people aren’t happy with the status quo isn’t a winning strategy. Neither is ignoring your base to pander to a group of people who will never for vote for you.
And she caved on trans rights.
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Trump is power because of the dumb lesser of two evil rhetoric that been used for over 100 years and the two party system. Most americans was dumb enough to think Trump was the less evil. 3rd party voters has zero effect on Trump winning so stop blaming them
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> So, what you’re saying is that the third party vote sent no message or made no point?? Because I remember tons of people here crying about how their vote for a third party candidate was a clear message to establishment dems that didn’t do what was demanded of them
I don’t care about what the other people and I don’t care if it prove a point or not. You do what you think is the best that’s all.
I hope you are not a defeatist in your own life and abandon any of your life goals because they are hard or may be impossible to do.
What I see is people like you crying about third-party voters and blame them for losing to Genocide Trump, although results show that they wouldn’t make Harris win if they all voted for her.
Seems it was as ineffective and wasteful as we all said it would be
What is wasteful is all the money the two parties spend in campaigns then keep failing Americans. What is ineffective is having one of the dumbest politician Kamala Harris that has a terrible compaign on every single goddamn issue
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support trans rights
Why do you surrender so easily to right-wing framing? What ads did she run supporting trans rights? What did she possibly do to make it an issue of her campaign?
There were two sides on trans rights. On one side, we had literal Nazis. On the other, silence. You conclude that the side that stayed silent made their whole campaign about trans rights, which is completely delusional.
Read the article. Kamala made her opinion of LGBT rights abundantly clear. She explicitly rejected Pete Buttigieg using the same logic a thousand other passive bigots I’ve met use. “I have no problem with queer people, but I can’t be near queer people because of what people might think of me.”
The right was the side that wouldn’t stop talking about trans issues as if they were a pressing matter. More manufactured outrage from the side that has been manufacturing outrage from every non-issue for decades.
Not sure why you’re downvoted when you’re absolutely right and Mamdani proved it too. People are suffocating under the economic pressure, they consider other issues less important until that one is resolved.
I am not trying to be political or upset anybody of either side. I blame Joe Biden for this, before you judge or get upset or disagree with me–just wait. I believe this is particularly the reason she lost. She was left only from July to November to figure out her platform, determine a potential running mate, and come up with ideas.
Usually they start campaigning around the midterms leaving nearly 2 years. She only had 4-5 months to prepare. She had limited amount of time to prepare her political campaign, to figure out her agenda how to get her message out there to everybody. Wait for time for people to hear it. They were not sure of her policies, they thought she was just an extension of Joe Biden because she didn’t have time.
This is just one factor. She did a very excellent job for the few months she had left. She could have done a better job if Joe Biden had not ran a second term.
Then it upset people that Democrats didn’t hold an open primary. She would have still won most likely, but for the younger generation and others. It was a turn off, they said it was a form of tyranny. (Of course it wasn’t. Even Republican party in 2020 cancelled primaries in some states)
Then you had states cleaning up the ‘voting rolls’ people didn’t realize they were unregistered, and ran out of time to register again. In a lot of states, I don’t believe you can register on the day you vote. I might be wrong though.
It is Joe Biden’s fault for not allowing a real dem primary. Kamala did terrible in the 2020 primary though, so she likely would have not gotten to the general election in 2024 without Biden’s meddling.
agreed. But I think it goes back much farther. Biden was never a good senator, always was soft on constitutional rights and civil liberties, and has always been a racist and a demagogue. He never should have been president in the first place. The fact that he was shows how far back the rot thats killing the dem party sprang from.
She refused to appear in unscripted events. People point to Trump’s podcast appearances as the reason he won, but in my opinion it’s closer to the truth to say that Kamala refusing to appear unless everything was closely controlled is what really cost her.
Some of that may also be that the secret service doesn’t allow for to much non “closely controlled” environments. Not sure exactly how that works, but I assume you have to let them know where you are going to be in advance and they figure out who is going to be there and set perimeter and everything else, which if you are nervous I imagine you fall into a “I should prepare for this interview” having hours/possibly days to do so.
She was left only from July to November to figure out her platform, determine a potential running mate, and come up with ideas.
She didn’t have too little time. She had too much time. She could have won if Biden had died a week before the election, and she had to take over last minute. The peak of her popularity was right when she got the candidacy. And it was all downhill from there. The more voters got to know her, the less they liked her. If she had had more time, it would have been much worse.
She was a deeply unlikable candidate that ran dead last in the primary she ran in. She was chosen by Biden as VP precisely because she was seen as unelectable and thus not a serious rival for Biden’s position.
Harris’ campaign shows exactly why Harris’ campaign failed.
