Meat-eaters: See block button. Choose to downvote/comment against it instead.

They hate when others speak the truth, which - naturally - makes them look bad. They can only feel good about themselves if the truth is supressed and never spoken out loud.

It’s just a shame it always has to be this 6 year old “meat is murder” mixed in into the delicious vegan recipes.

Now This is how you get downvoted BTW 😉 /j

I admire your discipline. I usually fuck around in meat eating communities until I get banned.

Vegans: Make a community for themselves

Meat-eaters: See block button. Choose to downvote/comment against it instead.

Oh nooo, our echo chamber is being invaded by discussion!

The only reason Im here is because i browse by everything and posts in this comm pop up frequently. Same as womenstuff so I get exposed to these posts without making any effort at all to encounter them as non vegetarian.

I don’t vote on the vast majority of posts I encounter. I don’t care for the voting system but I’ll use it if a post strikes me as bad content for Lemmy in general.

I don’t care what comm I’m in. Rarely check. I’ll engage with content if I have something to say, usually pass without comment. As most people do.

I don’t understand why restricted comms even show up for the whole Lemmy to see if they aren’t welcome to have all of lemmys eyeballs on them.

People who post content in niche places that are actively hostile to the vast majority of a larger community are naturally going to get massacred in any popular vote. That’s just math. And it’s a problem because it’s content for the wrong audience and just causes friction.

As far as I know unlike a comm that restricts who is allowed to post, non vegans are welcome to be here even if they aren’t very much appreciated and many of the vegans would just prefer they avoided it entirely instead of messing with it. Look but don’t touch kind of thing that’s my approach, but I get it wrong or just have had days too like anyone else.

I don’t think blocking out things you don’t like, or make you a bit sqeemish about, is a good habit to form. It’s absolutely a valuable tool but it’s too easy to create echo chambers and I constantly see that lack of encountering things greater than your own opinion being bad for your health over the long run.

We need to challenge the things that make us uncomfortable to make any real change happen. I wish I had a better solution for the people who need tear down all the things they don’t personally feel comfortable with it that challenge them in someway.

Perhaps I’m naive, but I look at this place and others like it as people sharing their opinions not communities acting as a group. It’s convenient to have those communities because they are real things that exist, but the content is for everyone even when everyone shouldn’t be responding to it. I hope I explained that properly.

Food and the consumption of it is a human universality. We all have it in common so I think whether you are vegan, vegetarian, or neither, it will draw interest far outside those it is intended to because food is just relatable one way or another.

I think it’s very mature of the vegans communities I’ve encountered on here that they don’t segregate themselves. I think that’s the only way to stop hostilities between different worldviews and start helping each other be better.

Thanks for getting through my dumb thoughts. If you are ever in Quebec City, one of the best soups I’ve ever had was a Thai curry soup from Don Vegan the first vegan only restaurant in that historic city.

I’m vegan. I chose to downvote and to report to mods.

We’re better than this low effort shitpost.

This post is in global feed.

Probably because this post is ableist and possibly AI generated slop?

If they linked to a good article, they’d get upvoted. Post an image of text, and you get immediately downvoted

Going with your number of 16 weeks and the 10 years from the OG post, that’s equivalent to 160 weeks of life for a human with an life expectancy of a 100 years. Just about 3 years. Regardless of your death or how you spent these years, few people would call that a ‘happy life’.

The way the word “processed” is used so casually is really saddening.

If you’re going to do this at least be honest about it instead of hiding behind these words to make it seem less terrible. You’re killing and dismembering these birds.

Eating flesh requires factory farming to be viable at a scale large enough for billions of humans. It’s literally impossible for every human that eats chicken flesh to raise their own chickens, this is a non-starter.

Eh… It depends on what your process is, but most broiler chickens are killed at factory type farm operations at 5 weeks. The real questionable statistic in this is for cows, which rarely are slaughtered before they reach 24-28 months.

Be upset at factory farming not eating meat. A properly raised and processed bird doesn’t suffer and has a happy life. Problem is, that costs a lot more.

I think it’d be a fair criticism to say that most Western diets contain entirely too much meat, and that is a problem not only for humans, but a huge problem for the environment.

It wouldn’t be possible to ethically source enough meat to meet the current global demand. So imo having a meat heavy diet is a valid criticism. The morality of actually eating meat doesn’t even have to come into the equation to determine that our current diets are unsustainable and actively harmful.

It’s not that people think of it as “good”, they just don’t think about it at all.

They also get really mad when you make them think about it, because most people know it’s wrong.

Pinned a transcript as hopefully a passable compromise. I screwed things up by not checking for alt-text when I saw this post earlier, so I won’t punish the OP and commenters for it.

We don’t need that much education to understand the argument, it’s quite simple actually:

You and animals both feel and want to live.

You don’t want others to harm your feelings or end your life.

If everyone respected eachothers feelings and desire to live, people wouldn’t harm you.

Therefore, we shouldn’t mess with the feelings and desire to live of beings that can feel and want to live.

Veganism is not about animal suffering, but needless animal exploitation.

Is the medicine needed for you? Then it isn’t needless animal exploitation.

Do you have other options besides exploiting animals to death for food? Then it is needless animal exploitation.

EDIT: I should clarify that there’s not one vegan philosophy. There’s many different philosophies that could lead to veganism. Animal personhood being the most extreme end of it, but vegans also include people who believe in harm minimization, people who just hate factory farms and live in cities, Buddhists, radical interpretations of halal, and more. I answered these questions from a harm minimization perspective.

General principle is minimization of harm. The classic example is “You’re on an island alone, slowly starving to death. There’s a pig. Would you kill and eat the pig?”

For quite a few vegans, the answer is yes. Luckily, that’s not the situation we find ourselves in, we can live healthy and happy lives without harming many animals in the vast majority of situations.

To directly answer the question: it depends. Is there an alternative that hasn’t been tested on animals? Is this medicine life-saving, or just very slight quality of life bump, like getting over a hangover slightly faster? Those questions would guide you to an answer.

To answer your chicken question, I don’t think there’s any moral issue with eating the body of a being that’s died of old age. I don’t think many vegans would do that anyway though, because after a long time without meat, it tastes “wrong” to eat meat (not sure exactly how to describe it). Same reason not many long-term vegans are that interested in lab-grown meat.

Especially since usually these animals suffered WAY more than livestock does, due to how medicine is tested.

You already got some good answers for the rest, but this part is also questionable. Lab animals tend to be kept in better conditions than most farmed animals. And while toxicity tests are terrible (esp the ones for cosmetics) they don’t tend to last as long as intensive farming. Chickens in factory farms can barely move, some collapse under the weight of their own muscles, 70 to 80% of them have broken bones. It is trully hell and that’s just one example.

Also when you look at the numbers, proportionally eating animals is a way bigger issue. Most meat eaters would be “responsible” for the killing of around ~100 animals a year just for food. For medicine, proportionally it would be way, way less, since the test happened only once.

To be honest for me veganism is not a set of rules, it’s a way of looking at things. Taking into consideration that animals are sentient beings and being honest to myself about the implications. Also on how my actions impact the world. I can’t justify not taking most medicines if I need them. However I also can’t justify not making the effort to look for cruelty-free cosmetics.

Not a vegan but since when is posting vegan content to a vegan community “spamming”?

Why are you even in here!?

People eat way more meat than humans “evolved to eat” and more than is healthy. Stop pretending it’s about biology. It’s not. Humans are omnivores and are perfectly fine without animal products.

Eat meat if you want to, but please be honest to yourself. You don’t need it, you want it. And you support unfathomable cruelty doing so. That is not “vegan bs”, but reality.

I’m not vegan myself, not even strictly vegetarian. Still I can acknowledge OPs point wholeheartedly.

Edit: also I just noticed this is a vegan community. Just block it and go on with your life instead of whining about so called spam??

Are you lost? Fuck off.

Brave of you to comment this in the vegan community 😅

I’m also not vegan but I absolutely support ending factory farming, cutting down on meat in general (even free range), and having a veg-first diet. I think we can be better, even if we don’t go vegan. For me personally, the environmental impact (methane) is more significant than any moral directive.

OP, the cognitive dissonance you point out is totally valid. I honestly think it almost entirely boils down to how far removed we (the general population) are from the process that ends with ingredients in the fridge.

If you took me to a chicken coop, gave me a butcher knife, and told me I had to prepare dinner with one of the little fellas I’d probably make a run for it. Which is quite hypocritical of me as a chicken enjoyer.

Perhaps another small part of it is the boundary of what people can/cannot empathise with. To be completely honest I feel far less for things like shrimp and oysters than I do about cows and chickens. I don’t know if that’s backed by the science (they don’t “feel”/comprehend as much) or just my narrow mindedness about how other life forms work.

North or south of 200lbs?

But think of the kids!

Man you should be glad we torture you on a daily basis, otherwise you wouldn’t even exist.

Would you rather live to be exploited to death or not be born at all?

Sheep are not native to the Americas and are not extinct, far from it actually.

Oh noes not the cows that won’t be alive to notice that they aren’t alive.

Assuming this is even accurate… it’s bad because…?

If they’d go extinct then either let them or help them. How is forcefully breeding them just for torture and genocide better than them going extinct?

My guys the cows were bred by humans in the first place, farming is not a conservation charity. The only reason people value cows is for their bodies anyway.

okay sheep are fucking idiots though. they can’t survive on their own. cows can.

what if i juat dont think about them? Does that work?

Ah, the Epstein defense. The only argument that beats veganism.

You’re supposed to cook the potato first.

Pasta, rice, lentils, peas, chickpeas, beans, mushrooms, mock meats… There are plenty more options other than animal exploitatin products and veggies.

I found that I had to kind of ‘reset’ my diet for me to like veggies. About a year ago, I ate much more veggies for like a month and now I like them a lot. Before, I struggled to eat a cucumber in a week, now I regularly eat an entire cucumber for one meal.

There’s some things to learn, e.g.:

• Soy sauce kicks up their taste.
• Adding chili allows combining multiple kinds of veggies.

But I believe, the biggest change is the microbiota in your gut. They can chat with your brain. And if you’ve cultivated microbiota that eat food A, then if you switch to food B, they will tell you to fuck off. But if you keep it up for a few weeks, the old microbiota will decline and new microbiota that enjoy food B will join the party.

I’m now one of those nerds that has to have veggies for almost every other meal, otherwise I will see my mood go down, and I do think that’s the microbiota controlling my brain.

Having said all that, I should perhaps add that I was already vegan before that. Yes, I was vegan and did not really like veggies.
You can do the veganisms without eating particularly healthily. You should largely be able to swap out meat with legumes and nuts, without changing everything else.

Yes, that’s also a diet change, where you have to learn things (for example, pre-soak lentils to make them less farty) and have to get new microbiota into the mix. But it helps to do these dietary changes one at a time, rather than try to swap out everything at once…

Unless that’s a phobia, I think you can learn to like them.

It’s like drinking coffee, it’s gross until you love it (i think… I still hate it, but I hear that’s most people’s experience).

And maybe you should be cooking or serving up your vegetables in different ways to make it easier to lean into adding them more and more into your diet.

(I’m not vegan sadly but vegetables are an important part of your diet, I think it’s beneficial for everyone to try to incorporate them in, because you may have a better life idk im also not a nutritionist)

Try some cumin or caraway with your veggies