Update: not hiding it anymore. https://github.com/lutris/lutris/discussions/6530#discussioncomment-16107836
People shouldn’t attack FOSS devs for using AI. You might not like AI, you might not like the AI companies, but it’s crazy to attack people providing free software for how they are creating that software. This is a bad path and will only lead to devs burning out, throwing the towel, and then we have less software around. Lutris is a nice piece of software, so good for the dev. And the AI haters should just fuck off.
Got it, so block any further updates till there’s a backtrack or a fork.
Anyway, I was suspecting that this “issue” might come up so I’ve removed the Claude co-authorship from the commits a few days ago. So good luck figuring out what’s generated and what is not.
Great way to torpedo any trust people might’ve had in your project.
Update: The attributions are back.
Since it’s such a big fuss, I’m putting the Claude attribution back.
https://github.com/lutris/lutris/discussions/6530#discussioncomment-16107836
Yeah, nah. Damage has been done already.
He should’ve stuck with his guns and said “the Claude code stays”.
He did. You may have misunderstood.
He did. You may have misunderstood.
I mean he should have simply stated “the Claude code stays”, instead of hiding which were the Claude commits.
I think you mean Claude cope.
It is kind of hilarious that this is actually the issue here. Sure, using AI for coding can be problematic. But then going back and removing any reference to it just to fuck with people even more. Damn.
While I hate AI as much as the next guy. It’s also entirely true that people are attacking and harassing people for using making them a worse problem.
I’m entirely down for fucking with the dipshits who can’t help themselves but be massive twats.
If your going to have a shit show might as well make it a good one.
I think it’s hilarious how much it’s bothering you guys
CAREFUL! That’s borderline troll thinking.
Oh you don’t like to know when we put shit in your food so you can scrutinize it? Fine we’ll just not tell you.
Congratz now ALL of it contains shit.
Schrodinger’s Backdoor
All jokes aside, Windows (pre ai) was filled with backdoors now. Still is, probably has more, but it never stopped them in the past.
“Haha now you won’t know what is or isn’t slop!!”
“But then we’ll just assume it’s all slop…”
“…D’oh!!!”
They are making the point that you won’t be able to tell the difference. & It’s a salient one.
Doesn’t give much confidence in their coding abilities then.
Okay. I guess you want the volunteer open source dev to write everything by hand from scratch so it will pass your high standards. That’s on you, honestly.
Thats like…exactly how its been done up to this point???
Ahh yes, how dare a community run and funded project have community accountability.
The project has several ways of being community funded.
Accountability for what!? You people have lost your minds.
Ah yes, if anyone is against AI, because of its problems, then we’ve all lost our minds.
Are YOU the dev in question, or do you just have an unreasonably huge boner for AI?
I happen to agree w the developer that peoples’ problem w AI is actually a problem w Capitalism
Yes, that is what we want. Or at least everything past boilerplate templates.
Even if that were true, which it isn’t, there are plenty of other reasons to scrutinize any use of “generative” AI.
Like…?
Like that it produces hallucinated bullshit and anyone can see that with any given 2-3 Google searches now. It’s literally impossible to miss that if you use the Internet now.
I’m not a fanboi of AI, but also not all AI is equally capable. You can be upset for ethical reasons, you can dislike some things it produces for style reasons, and yes it does sometimes produce code that feels like it should work, even though it doesn’t. All of these things are true.
But also Claude doing coding is very different than the AI answers on Google searches, and even those are much better than a cherry-picked highlight reel of bad results on a blog post.
Again, you don’t have to like AI or agree with its use, but claiming the code Claude produces is fully bullshit because some customer support chatbot does a bad job is just being misinformed. You should at least know your enemy and its capabilities.
You took that way too literally
“You didn’t like what I was doing? No fucking problem I’ll just lie about it moving forward”
Having read the article, some points from the dev make sense, but also he acted like a princess by the end, so a bit of a messy situation.
Uninstalled, bye bye ai slop.
I’ll be uninstalling tonight.
What decides if something is slop or not is the thing itself. It is not your “KwaLiFiKaShunz”. Bringing up “muh 30 years of XP lol lmao” means jack shit.
If he was co-authoring the code with Claude this means he submitted code made by Claude; he didn’t just ask for some examples and implement in his own way. The later would be far more reasonable than the former.
What he said about the problem being capitalism instead of the tool itself is, I believe, valid. However, it should be no excuse to unnecessarily feed that very same economic system, by paying for the bloody tool.
Finally. He could’ve fixed what people complained about, by removing the commits, so he would keep them happy. He could also stick to his guns, and say “no, I’m not changing it. The Claude code stays”. But he did neither; instead he’s hiding it from the users. That’s pretty much the same as saying “I’m going to treat users as gullible filth and easy to fool, instead of human beings deserving honesty.”
A good thing open software can be forked.
More specifically, it means they made commits with it. If you use it but commit yourself there’s no coauthored.
Or just add a note to your memory md…
But even if he goes metaphorically vegan, his code is still going to feed the AIs.
Which is an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with this one.
Even if it was the same conversation (as TrickDacy said, it isn’t), “you can’t avoid the harm completely” is no excuse to avoid causing at least some of that harm.
I’m not gonna lie, Lutris is fucking terrible. Basic QOL things are missing. There’s so many disjointed ways of doing so many things. The same 2-5 things need to be set every time you add an app and it’s basically all manual because they have done nothing to make it better. There’s thousands and switches and options, and the only way to find information about what they do is to hit the web… and then you find out so many of them are probably useless.
There’s built in install scripts for things but trying to figure out any information about them within the program itself is also useless.
Then there’s the shit that just doesn’t work. Other tools like Heroic Games Launcher are the only way to install games from providers like epic. You can spend hours troubleshooting this in Lutris, and maybe even get an epic game to install and run once… but everything is going to be a broken mess on try 2.
Just a disappointing app all around once you really start working with it. It’s a shame it seems to be the default mode wine app manager.
Speaking of install scripts, their refusal to version them for “reasons” was my first hint that the project wasn’t in a healthy state.
I just removed Lutris and tried out Bottles last night. How have I never tried it before? It’s so good!
Expect the dev behind it is also a insane twat waffle.
Bottles is about as much of a mess as lutris is with a dev that’s just as crazy.
Generally you have a 50/50 coin flip if lutris or bottles works for you. And for the most part you sorta just try both and see which works then attempt as hard as you can to change nothing so it don’t break. Cause bottles LOVES to break.
I don’t think the dev of Lutris is an insane twat waffle. He and I just disagree on the use of AI code. I foresee the project’s quality declining because of it, and I’d prefer to jump ship now. Lutris wasn’t a big part of my system, so it was really easy. Basically I only ever used it to run WinSCP on Linux.
Never used that shit.
“Add non-Steam game”
That is generally the approach I use, but some games take a bit more setup. I play StarCraft2 for Archipelago and I needed to install it with this app to get the proper script to get it to run successfully. What this app has that Steam doesn’t is the ability for people to create, export, and share custom install and launch profiles for others to use.
With that said I will need to see what Heroic Launcher has to offer.
Ahhh, that is useful.
I used a bit of Heroic and liked it, I hope it fills your needs!
Oh poop, been using lutris and it was pretty good at what it was doing for me. What might be alternatives though?
Heroic is pretty good
Bottles, maybe?
Heroic has been my go to for everything outside of my Steam library.
Heroic. Bottles for the rest.
I’ve found Faugus to just be better.
Heroic and Steam.
Heroic for GOG and Epic games.
Steam for literally everything else: add the .exe as a non-Steam game, find it in your library, go into its properties, set Compatibility > Force Compatibility Mode > Proton Experimental.
Heroic can add games to Steam for you.
I liked Lutris for Battle.net games like Diablo.
Again, Steam does a fine job of that. Add the installer as a non-Steam game, set compatibility, “play” it, then when it’s finished change the shortcut to point to the actual game.
I just fucking install my games like normal with wine if needed.
What is wrong with people that you can’t install something and add a .desktop entry on your system?
Lutris furfils several roles that a bunch of
.desktopentries will not.- Its a list of games
- you can search it by title
- you can tag them
- you can sort them in different ways
- you can use wine for some launches, proton for others or native
although i don’t use it, you can log into your steam account (i think also gog?) to get access to games from there.
Think of it, as a more of a plex/jellyfin library for games than a bunch of video files spread around your hdd. I don’t want to remember which games are wine friendly and which need proton or are linux native.
I simply can’t take the one-prefix-fits-all approach. Some games play way nicer with older wine versions (especially 32bit games. From the top of my head, The Sims 1 works better for me with Wine 8). A prefix manager is really helpful for managing prefixes with different wine versions that don’t clog up the rest of the system.
But go off being an ass, I guess.
I use wine with winetricks for the manager and the other stuff that makes it easier. I also use q4wine. It’s a GUI for wine written in Qt. Both makes things simpler to varying degrees, and winetricks does have some scripts (though I don’t know how they would compare to lutris)
Neat, thank you, I’ll be taking a peek at that combo!
Lord Almighty the reactionary hate is so goddamn stupid.
Do you blame people for having a knee-jerk reaction to unwelcome AI integration? Or would you mind elaboring on what you view as reactionary.
Yes. Theyre being reactionary.
Are these people even paying a single penny to the developer or are they just acting entitled?
Have they contributed at all to the project? Its foss, maybe they dhould open up their own PRs and fix it if they care so much.
Theyre welcome to fork it anytime they want and just not merge in any AI commits, if they can spot them, right?
But I bet you no one will actually do this, people will mald and act entitled and stamp their feet… and then keep using it anyways and never pay a cent to the dev.
Fuck em. The dev doesnt owe them shit.
The dev “owes us” as people to not be a shitty person, or at the very least, we should expect them not to be one. It absolutely is a slap in the face to people who trusted that project and the person heading it to not be shit, because they are now being shit, and people are right to call them out. Because they’re being shit.
Also you’re right, more people should donate to FLOSS projects that they love and use frequently, as do I. As someone with no programming knowledge, it’s all I can do aside from recommending your software to others. Wanna know one way to ensure I’ll not only withhold donations but warn others not to use or trust your software? Defending and/or using AI slop machines.
Yeah I do. This is a small, volunteer, open source developer creating something for our benefit & has found a way to ease their workload but the purity brigade demands they type everything out by hand from scratch b/c they have big feels & are reflexively reactionary about AI. Seems shitty to me.
Gotcha, I have a different definition of reactionary.
I interpreted your comment to mean: “these guys are mad the human who made the project is no longer writing the project in its entirety. So they feel the need to abandon the project and villify the author for using the big plagiarism tool.”
If I’m correct in my interpretation. I would agree with that comment, making me also reactionary by your definition.
This is a project released for free by volunteers we’re talking about, not a commercial service pushing hostile crap on users.
I think the dev in question is shitty for treating Lutris as their own fiefdom, but the mob are looking a gift horse in the mouth by attacking volunteers when they’re not willing to step up and contribute non-AI code themselves.
I think you mean a different idiom than “a gift horse in the mouth”
What’s wrong with it? Seems like the right metaphor.
People are complaining about the minutiae of something they’ve been given freely and don’t have to use.
“Looking a gift horse in the mouth” means that you’ve received a gift of some kind, but you’re giving it too much scrutiny. It kind of shows the giver of the gift that you’re not really appreciative of it - sometimes it’s better to smile and nod and thank them for the gift, and scrutinize it later.
I guess what you mean is that Lutris is the gift, but my first reading was that the opportunity to chastise a developer for using AI was the gift.
deleted by creator
Why are you making up quotes I didn’t say and don’t reflect my opinion in the slightest?
From the outside, it sure looks like you’re trying to flame and stir drama to address your own emotional state, rather than make any sort of coherent argument to persuade people to your line of thinking.
unwelcome AI integration
This isn’t an integration. They’re just using AI to write some of the code.
I don’t AI so I don’t know the lingo. I think it’s shit so I don’t want shit near my nice things.
Fair. But keep in mind if you ever use auto translate, Netflix recommendations, Google search (or ddg), Windows, Mac, android. iPhone. Any service hosted on AWS (like 70% of all sites) you’re indirectly using ai.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m with out. But it’s unavoidable.
I see it as one if those “no ethical consumption under capitalism” kinda things. You can’t avoid it because the people that control the thing are adding shit to the recipe.
Sure, and I agree there’s no ethical consumption, but I don’t see it as a flat line.
There’s more and less when it comes to ethical.
I actually dont see the fucking problem. Let them develop it way they want. People will tell if it’s good or not.
The problem is installing buggy clanker code on thousands of systems where the experience level is “I like games”
Ethics objections aside, dude said he’s not even reviewing some of the code the AI generates. At least leave the markers where it shows which code is what so proper scrutiny can be given.
Lutris dev is a straight up crybaby and needs to learn to a) read a room and b) not take risks with other people’s systems to stroke his own fucking ego.
Fucking bitchmade shit.
At this point I guess we’re just assuming it’s “buggy” due to the IA, right? You guys just have to accept that these tools will do better job than humans in the near future, at least for basic or intermediate programming. It’s going to get better that it is today and we’re going to have to live with it. I agree on marking the code. That should be necessary. Besides that, I really don’t care about the dev. As I said before no one is forcing us to use Lutris.
It’s going to get better that it is today and we’re going to have to live with it.
Just shut up with this line.
Every piece of human-made code that’s available online has already been trawled hundreds of times, and anything new doesn’t get added often. There are no more examples for AI agents to use in training that weren’t used before. Their progress in generating code is plateauing.
AI generated code is still notorious at hallucinating API calls and making code that doesn’t work. And the code that does work tends to be overcomplicated and unoptimized. And this code isn’t easily maintainable because the “developers” weren’t involved in its production.
At this point I guess we’re just assuming it’s “buggy” due to the IA, right?
No. But it might be. We don’t know because the guy who’s supposed to double check, isn’t. And admits to it like its some kind of brag.
There also the whole debate around licensing. Generative images have been called “art laundering”, and the same can be argued for code.
It’s a potential way to break FOSS licenses. Just copy the code and have an AI re-implement what it does, and boom you get to ignore license obligations.
