- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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I’m tired of being surrounded by propaganda. Do better.
Tell that to your pedophile rulers
we do
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lmao the fuck you do
Once I stop reading “two things can be true at once” whenever your nazi pedophile rulers tell you something bad about the next country they want to destroy maybe I’ll believe you
Americans are protesting in historic numbers regularly. Larger than anything aside from the earth day protests that I am aware of. This narrative that Americans are rolling over and accepting this is false. It’s not being reported.
Of course that’s not enough l, but it’s counterproductive to spread information that contributes to a sense of learned helplessness. Trump is a traitor and a serial child rapist and murder, and all true Americans believe this and are fighting however they can.
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Leftists have regularly been advocating for organizing:
The problem with liberals is that they still think the democrats are a path to progress, rather than slow death.
Cowbee I like the chart, but respectfully a lot of the rhetoric on ML instances reads closer to trolling than engaging to build a “sympathetic base” , just my 2 cents not worth much more than that ;-)
Every time I see Cowbee in a thread like this, it’s like I walked into a restaurant to see someone trying to explain to somebody else why their friend who just spat in their food is actually a cool dude doing great solidarity because the owners of the restaurant treat their employees poorly.
ML in my experience has very little to do with engaging with leftists and more to do with bashing the “decadent West.” Anytime I see memes.ml pop up in my feed, it’s a 50/50 shot between me finding something funny or something that makes me debate blocking the instance as much as I can at an account level.
The decadent west
Lol you have not seen a single person say this, you’re just reaching into a grab bag of dialogue tropes you’ve heard in old movies or maybe a Red Alert game. Fucking nobody says “the decadent west” outside of Bond movies from 50 years ago. Quit lying.
I didn’t mean that as a literal quote but as sarcastic air quotes to evoke the exact imagery that you came up with. Although, I have actually seen a Hexbear or (what’s the other one, Beehaw?) user use that phrase. Of course, they also said that only capitalist pigs die in China, so it’s hard to tell if they were serious or if it was full commitment to the bit. That part of Lemmy is fairly indistinguishable from a leftist version of 4chan.
Like I said in another comment, ML has an issue common to many leftist communities in that old saying of “nobody hates leftists more than other leftists.” And that can manifest as behaving like more moderate leftists (not liberals - actual leftists) may as well be centrists or conservatives, or treating Europe as being just as bad as Trump’s regime. Purity tests and trolling rather than the mutual cooperation that Cowbee posted.
ML in my experience has very little to do with engaging with leftists and more to do with bashing the “decadent West.” Anytime I see memes.ml pop up in my feed, it’s a 50/50 shot between me finding something funny or something that makes me debate blocking the instance as much as I can at an account level.
Meme communities will be like that, right?
Why not block this community and engage with other communities in the instance?
I guess? I don’t think I’ve ever really stayed in a memes community where that’s the case, though on Reddit I was largely in places like egg_irl and traaa, where everything was focused around a shared experience of a minority group.
Besides, it’s not just the memes community, the memes is just where it appears the most blatantly and loudly. As the person above me said, it’s an instance wide thing. ML is nowhere near as bad as Hexbear (or I have yet to see any targeted harassment campaigns against an instance for failing a purity vibe check come from ML, at least) but, as they say, “nobody hates leftists more than other leftists.” Leftist spaces tend to have a bit of an undercurrent of only being welcoming to the “right kind of leftist.” I used “decadent West” up there very purposefully. There’s a bit of a vibe to ML that’s less “uniting various leftist groups” and more “preaching The Good Word to those poor ignorants” proselytizing.
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Your entire argument is based on the idea that shitposting online is the primary means by which leftists organize. I organize with a communist party in real life, online memes and shitposting are by no means what people advocate as “practice,” it’s just a thing to do in free time. Take a step back and rethink what you believe is going on.
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What on Earth are you talking about? All real communist orgs use online agitation, newsletters, social media, and more. I’m not saying that shitposting is valuable, I’m saying it’s not what I mean by practice. You’re deeply confused.
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This may counter propaganda, but is also clearly propaganda itself.
China executes pedophiles and America elects them and worships at their churches. It’s really not a complicated comparison. There is no gotcha here
Maybe both countries should stop executing people given that a non-negligible number of them are entirely innocent. Maybe capital punishment should have been abandoned long before the 21st Century and any country that continues it be a pariah state.
Im not a fan of corporal punishment at all. I don’t think any state should have authority to end any life for any reason. I could wish for an end to state sanctioned murder in one hand and shit in my other. We all know which hand will fill up first
Fair, though I’m not sure it’s as simple as that. I’m no fan of the US, but what do you think is the biggest issue plaguing China right now from a humanist perspective?
- Poverty (which they’re alleviating), and the trappings of poverty (like poor labor conditions, corruption, and abuse).
- Environmental degradation (which they are alleviating) and all the trappings that come with it (like greater impact on the poor, bad health outcomes, corruption).
- Threats from state actors (which they are alleviating) and the trappings that come it (like selective repression of dissent, organizing, and collaboration, surveillance and chilling effects, etc)
Propaganda is just messaging, there’s nothing inherently evil about it. The question is what message is being propagated.
Absolutely - I did not mean to imply that this is evil propaganda.
Literally anything that causes an idea to spread is propaganda. Advertising, calls for help, gossip, commentary, analysis, storytelling, hell public art or theater or even just public conflict. That’s what the word means, the means of idea propagation.
Absolutely, that’s my point.
So calling anything propaganda is pointless, because everything is propaganda.
Exactly. And saying this meme is counter-propaganda is pointless, since it itself is propaganda.
Ok, sure. It’s exactly as propaganda as anything else
Again, there is no cultural artifact that does not serve a propaganda purpose or espouse a worldview
Indeed - Riverside’s claim that this is not propaganda is therefore false.
It’s not propaganda as we’ve been made to understand it in the west, because that’s a meaningless vibes based category
Hmm, maybe I misunderstood you.
If all cultural artifacts serve a propaganda purpose, but this post is not propaganda, does that mean that this post is not a cultural artifact?
I’m saying we’ve been taught that “propaganda” is just another word for “lies” when the reality is that it covers basically any piece of art, culture or commentary. It’s just any art or information that advances a specific view of the world. As a category it’s hopelessly broad, so it’s better to understand it as a function rather than a thing.
Shitposting isn’t propaganda
Then you might want to get off the internet and live in the woods
Tempting
They can both be bad.
They can but they aren’t
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How?
Waiting for Liberals to actually have a thought out response to the excellent resources the MLs of this community provide.
Something something square Something something tanks
And don’t forget that China has billionaires!
Still waiting…
the real question: where is the liberal equivalent of @Cowbee@lemmy.ml
I’m so tired
Both states are awful.
Wow, that was hard.
Being wrong takes no effort.
Dumb and wrong
Lol. Sorry, one is absolutely perfect and must not have any problems spoken about. Let’s do some more you vs us bullshit (not that I am from either).
Do you think, perhaps, that there could be a middle ground between “as awful as the US Empire” and “absolutely perfect and must not have any problems spoken about?” Do you think the position “US Empire is awful, China is good but not perfect” can exist, or is that too nuanced?
Has anyone ever said that on ml! You may the the most flexible commenter here!
I don’t think anyone has maintained the position that China is perfect on Lemmy.ml. Defending China from overstated or false allrgations does not mean there are no problems, and the existence of problems does not mean most are not being actively worked on.
Maybe confronting the conversations is a better thing than denying and finger pointing then? Depends who you want in the conversation though, assuming such a thing is allowed.
denying and finger pointing
Literally what the libs are doing constantly in any conversation about countries they’ve been brainwashed to hate. You’re afraid of a real conversation, so you just mentally shut down, repost the same old debunked propaganda for the 500th time, and shout thought-terminating epithet at anyone who dissents. The liberal caricature of communist society is in fact how they themselves enforce ideological compliance.
Literally every day. You guys, on the other hand, have to pretend not to see it because actually engaging with actual criticism (like you pretend to care about) would be devastating to your stunted worldview.
No, I want to see it. I hate the needless wars and aggression. Dictatorships, genocide, ethnicity restrictions, forced labour, natural desolation for coin/convenience, etc.
No superpowers are immune from committing these crimes.
It is my mistake to comment on the ml propaganda site though.
Yes, US is uniquely bad though, but i don’t need to say that, it’s obvious
Cynical lip service that isn’t reflected in your actual politics
Sweeping declarative statements divorced from any analysis beyond idle chin tapping
Crying victim when your hostile shit behavior isn’t fawned over
No superpowers are immune from committing these crimes.
The sad thing about living in the empire built on these crimes is that they are so all-pervasive, it becomes second nature to see them as universal. Like a child born into an abusive family who sees the abuse as normal. Their parents tell them, in between beatings, that anyone who claims not to live this way is lying. The child slips into state of depression, believing that humanity itself is simply like this everywhere. They see no point in striving for better, because better doesn’t exist. When more and more people tell the child that this is wrong, that other people in fact do not live like this, the child may lash out in anger and denial, too afraid to entertain hopeful notions. “There is no alternative” becomes the accepted wisdom. Fear and spite close the curtain on curiosity. The cycle continues.
Lol you’re doing the angry 12 year old thing of throwing up your hands and going “Oh so China must be an absolute perfect heaven on earth, huh?!”
That’s the commentary you folk give give though. Every post is US bad, any knows issues with cha are lies
Now you’re doing the 12 year old “This thing I’m doing is actually what you’re doing”.
Sounds very familiar here
Lol bro i am begging you to at least act 13
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Have you considered a lot of your criticism are not accepted or have paragraphs of
denialsanalysis because a lot of your criticism stem from a faulty base understanding and/or analysis (such as overstating the scale/scope of the issue if it exists or hammering on criticisms that aren’t real like the “genocide”)?Just an example of what I’m talking about: The hukou system in the modern day is deeply flawed and there are many criticisms to be made of it such as it leading to wage disparity etc. However if I were to then say that the hukou system never made any sense, was senseless cruelty or some other such nonsense jumped off from it that would necessitate a few paragraphs of explanation and rebuttal to reach the truth of the matter. Which is that the system in the modern day is outdated and harmful but was a necessary policy to avoid massive slums forming and despite it’s harms does have some positive aspects such as the guaranteed land and homesteading rights should one end up homeless.
It’s important that criticism be principled and precise for it to have any meaning. I’d be very interested to hear some of your criticisms that were faced with paragraphs of “denials”.
The issue is that the “criticisms” that people bring up aren’t reality, they’re propaganda. We can talk about real issues just fine, if/when you spend the time first learning how China really is, then we can actually have a productive discussion and treat you seriously. As it is we’re not gonna act as if disproven shit is real.
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Everyone and their dog just seem to be waiting for the chance to write their dissertation on the benevolence of China, and yet rarely do I see the same in defence of western countries.
Have you considered that what looks like “dissertations” might just be people applying materialist analysis, seeking truth from facts against the propaganda wave?
That China, flaws and contradictions included, has still secured historical wins for the proletariat of the periphery (especially in China), while the Western imperial bloc runs and has been running the world’s largest and most advanced exploitation and immiseration machine in human history on throughout the periphery?
So of course dissecting China takes nuance to weigh the real gains against the flaws and discern the truth from the wave of lies?
When you do a material analysis of the West and what’s left to weigh? Just capitalist plunder, imperialist immiseration, and fascism.
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I think you should reread my comment and sources, as they already counter that article. Do you think I haven’t read that wikipedia entry already? It’s the first thing people jump to when trying to prove a genocide, despite being full of holes and referencing Adrian Zenz, or sources relying on Adrian Zenz. Have the basic decency to check out the sources I linked.
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You’re getting downvoted because your points have been thoroughly debunked, and we refuse to accept your fantasies as material reality.
God I would hate to have my life expectancy doubled, truly evil shit
Do not confuse Technocracy with Socialism. While Chinese Technocracy is Socialist, Technocracy alone can be a massive problem.
Democracy is only as good as the voters. The average Chinese is better educated and a better citizen overall than the average USAmerican. Thus the difference in results. My experience with Chinese and USAians confirm this, even if anecdotal. I could have just missed the bad Chinese and was overexposed to bad USAians.
Democracy is only as good as the voters.
I wouldn’t know. I’ve never lived in one.
Western liberal democracies are structurally flawed, and despite the immense systemic advantage capital already enjoys, capital still needs to manipulate education, religion, and media to persuade people to vote against their own material interests. The result is a political landscape that, in many cases, produces outcomes more dysfunctional than those seen in some modern monarchies or even historic feudal systems—yet with the added disadvantage that many citizens remain unaware of their own diminished political and economic conditions, convinced they live in the freest societies on earth and that everything elsewhere must be worse. Concluding such a system is not truly democratic, or merely a democracy of the bourgeoisie is a valid conclusion, because whether systematic or through manipulation of education, religion and media, they are the only ones who benefit from it, and the majority have no means of getting what they want.
I know you already know this. This comment was meant for any lurker who doesn’t know. The people who think they are one election away from fixing the system if they would only voter harder.
And I know you know I know 😉
I am deeply concerned that this is getting worse, not better. I sincerely hope I’m totally wrong about this, but I see young “educated” Americans more and more being unable to think at all. The kids in university now are liberally using commercial LLMs to finish assignments. People are surrendering their ability to think to private corporations. Imagine in 10 years from now, a man who can’t pay his AI bill can no longer survive on his own. And even if he could, he could only ever do what the corporate model deems acceptable. Just fully giving up agency because agency is friction.
I can’t respond to this email without paying Sam Altman! I can’t wipe my ass without Grok!
I’m drunk. I’m sorry. I hate what is happening, and I am helpless to stop it.
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I love the smell of false dichotomy in the morning. Smells like… propaganda
A false dichotomy is when you only present two possible options when the set of options to choose from is much greater.
This is not attempting to get you to choose, but rather expose the hypocrisy of those who say “the US is bad right now but at least it’s not China”
Ohh, so I get to pick which awful country is better? Cool choices.
Edit: aaaaaaand the tankies show up.
Why do you think China is awful?
Fire ass name btw
Thank you Comrade Sharkfucker 🫡
While I don’t posit that China is uniquely awful here are some low lights:
- The oppression of the Uyghur Muslims
- The invasion of Tibet
- The threatened annexation of Taiwan
- The Tiananmen Square massacre. Shall I go on?
I’m sure the people of Tibet would much rather have continued living as barefoot slaves under a medieval theocracy of pedophile priests who tortured them, sexually abused them and made arts and crafts out of their body parts.
CW Insane Leatherface-type Horror Shit, including a flayed toddler skin: https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/tvs5pj/remembering_tibet_here_and_there_warning_graphic/
I can always tell when someone doesn’t know shit about Tibet beyond what they absorbed from 90s pop culture when their reflexive, programmed hatred for China leads them to side with the absolute nightmare kingdom that the PLA liberated people from. If you would have a problem with Mormons taking over all of America and imposing brutal Deseret Law on millions of people, then boy do I have some fucking news for you about Old Tibet.
Fuck the overlords, fuck the llamas
Now look up “Taiwan White Terror”.
- Oppression of Uyghur ISIS terrorist members.
- Liberation of British-colonized Tibet, run by a local theocrat that enslaved most of its people and by enslaved I mean they had officially been designated as serfs to the state, as human property of the clergy, by law.
- You can’t annex your own country, but what you can do is support an expelled far-right party of a country that kills the indigenous people of an island and pretend that these murderers are somehow the victims.
- The Tiananmen square insurgency was a CIA-backed coup attempt where the insurgents murdered 100+ Chinese army choir soldiers that were on their way to the square to sing out the protesters off the square.
Go on…
Their were excesses during the ETIM crackdown no doubt, however much of those have since been rectified and the crackdown was unfortunately necessary. The crackdown was also far more humane and reasonable in response to the terrorism in comparison to the western world that spent decades killing hundreds of thousands to over a million innocents in the middle east (not to mention Abu gharib, Guantanamo and the other black sites).
Tibetan serfs and slaves requested the PLA’s help in overthrowing their violent theocratic slave state.
Do you support the reunification of Ireland? Do you support the reunification of Korea (who reunified with who being irrelevant)? Are you a supporter of the American confederacy? Why should China not be allowed to finish it’s civil war? Also invasion is the last resort, peaceful reunification is the ideal.
A violent clash between police and protesters (who started the violence) over 35 years ago makes China awful? Certainly an interesting perspective.
You’re the 573rd person to point these out to us. You can go on, but we’ve heard them all before.
We’re doing this again?
I’m pretty sure virtually all of the Tibetan people are happy to no longer be suffering under theocratic feudalism. Happy to no longer be illiterate serfs and slaves living in depredation under a god-king. I doubt many of them are sad that CIA asset Dalai “suck my tongue” Lama is in exile.[1]
Xinjiang/The Uyghurs
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing terrorist cells in Xinjiang, and once those efforts failed, it concocted and promoted a genocide narrative. Antony Blinken is still pushing this slop, just a few weeks ago.
- The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified
- The Uyghur Human Rights Project is a product of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the American government’s main regime change NGO.
- Uyghur genocide allegations
- American Debunks All Major Western Propaganda on Uyghurs and Xinjiang
- US-Funded Uyghur Activists Train as Soldiers of Empire
- A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China
.
The blueprint of regime change operationsWe see here for example the evolution of public opinion in regards to China. In 2019, the ‘Uyghur genocide’ was broken by the media (Buzzfeed, of all outlets). In this story, we saw the machine I described up until now move in real time. Suddenly, newspapers, TV, websites were all flooded with stories about the ‘genocide’, all day, every day. People whom we’d never heard of before were brought in as experts — Adrian Zenz, to name just one; a man who does not even speak a word of Chinese.
Organizations were suddenly becoming very active and important. The World Uyghur Congress, a very serious-sounding NGO, is actually an NED Front operating out of Germany […]. From their official website, they declare themselves to be the sole legitimate representative of all Uyghurs — presumably not having asked Uyghurs in Xinjiang what they thought about that.
The WUC also has ties to the Grey Wolves, a fascist paramilitary group in Turkey, through the father of their founder, Isa Yusuf Alptekin.
Documents came out from NGOs to further legitimize the media reporting. This is how a report from the very professional-sounding China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) came to exist. They claimed ‘up to 1.3 million’ Uyghurs were imprisoned in camps. What they didn’t say was how they got this number: they interviewed a total of 10 people from rural Xinjiang and asked them to estimate how many people might have been taken away. They then extrapolated the guesstimates they got and arrived at the 1.3 million figure.
Sanctions were enacted against China — Xinjiang cotton for example had trouble finding buyers after Western companies were pressured into boycotting it. Instead of helping fight against the purported genocide, this act actually made life more difficult for the people of Xinjiang who depend on this trade for their livelihood (as we all do depend on our skills to make a livelihood).
Any attempt China made to defend itself was met with more suspicion. They invited a UN delegation which was blocked by the US. The delegation eventually made it there, but three years later. The Arab League also visited Xinjiang and actually commended China on their policies — aimed at reducing terrorism through education and social integration, not through bombing like we tend to do in the West.
Tiananmen riots
- The Tian’anmen Square ‘Massacre’: The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie.
- 1989 Tian’anmen Square riots
- A Note on the Tiananmen Protests
- Images from Tiananmen 1989 the West never shows (NSFW / CW: violence and death)
- Tank Man video footage. Tiananmen Square, Beijing, 1989
- How psy-ops warriors fooled me about Tiananmen Square: a warning
Taiwan claims to be an independent nation ready to resist China
And yet only a dozen UN member states recognize it as an independent state.
I’d love to know which Taiwanese say that.
Pretty much all of them? It’s even in the ROC’s constitution. Both the ROC and the PRC claim all of China, including the island of Formosa.
Shall I go on?
Yes, go on, because it seems like you’re losing steam and I’m calling your bluff
My Chinese friends living in New Zealand as dual citizens are afraid to criticize the Chinese government even in private online conversations. That says a lot, I think.
That says a lot, I think.
It certainly does but mostly about them lmao. If you ever end up living in China you’ll come to realise criticizing and debating about the government is like the second most popular conversation topic. We love it, it’s almost a national pass time.
But do you do it in public, online or offline? What about protests? What about strikes?
Where are the independent news organizations and invitations to during media to prove to the world everything we think is wrong with the Converse government is a lie?
Why the great firewall of China?
Yes, people discuss government policy in public and offline all the time. It’s a very normal topic of conversation. In practice, serious political discussion tends to happen face-to-face because that’s simply a better format for nuanced debate, but there is also plenty of discussion online. What generally gets censored online are calls for overthrowing the state, organizing mass unrest, or similar things. Many countries draw similar lines around incitement or destabilization.
Protests and strikes do occur, but they are usually local and issue-specific rather than ideological movements aimed at regime change. Labor disputes, land disputes, corruption complaints, etc. happen all the time and are often resolved through administrative or legal channels. The political culture tends to focus more on petitioning, negotiation, and internal pressure than on permanent protest movements.
On “independent” media: Independent from whom? In Western countries most major media outlets are owned by a very small number of large corporations or billionaires. Those owners influence what gets covered, what narratives dominate, and what perspectives are marginalized. Calling that system “independent” while ignoring ownership power is a very selective definition of independence.
The firewall was originally created to foster and protect China’s fledgling digital infrastructure and data sovereignty. That was a legitimate policy choice. Many countries regulate foreign platforms and data flows. China built its own ecosystem instead of depending on foreign companies. We have seen what happens when foreign platforms operate without local oversight: Facebook facilitating genocide in Myanmar, coordinated anti-vax disinformation campaigns in Southeast Asia, algorithm-driven radicalization. The firewall makes those kinds of external influence operations harder to run at scale.
I like many others here support the firewall even though it can be inconvenient (so long as vpns remain accessible and legal). I have seen the alternatives. The trade off makes sense to us.
Thanks for taking the time to go into all this detail. If nothing else I will keep an open mind that everything we know in the west is wrong, and hope that a world led by China is a world worth wanting.
And my aunt living in alabama is scared of muslim inflltrators, sometimes people worry about things that are fictional and/or unfathomably stupid
You’re right that’s a thing, it isn’t that.
It is exactly that
How do you justify all the censorship and working 996 for an example?
No one will deny that China has censorship. We do as well, but it’s more subtle, covert, informal, and sophisticated, which Michael Parenti and Noam Chomsky have explained in great detail. China’s censorship is largely out in the open. It’s made clear where the lines are. The press freedom in bourgeois democracies, A.K.A. social democracies, is the freedom of the media owned by the capitalist class and by the government, a government which is run by the capitalist class.
“996” was never legal nor pervasive, and the state cracked down on it years ago. Western media will always make a mountain out of a molehill to maximally smear China, because the Cold War never ended.
996 seems like a concept copied from Korean and Japanese workplace culture. It would probably be fairer to look at some underlying common circumstances
It was a thing in ~40 of the big tech firms during the 2016-2019 tech boom, the supreme people’s court explicitly ruled it illegal in 2021 and with the 2025 consumption boost plan more frameworks for cracking down on excess overtime alongside enforcing rest and vacation rights better alongside many other things is being put in place.
Thank you for answering. I will take a look at your claims.
Well for a start 996 is illegal so I don’t think I need to justify that.
And censorship can be annoying but is far less pervasive than you people imagine. The amount that is censored is probably on par with that of the western world, China is just open about where the lines are. Even then it’s entirely confined to the digital domain/media you can still talk about whatever you want which becomes very clear if you ever get a taxi lmao. Some amount of censorship is good anyway, fascists should be censored for example.
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China has democracy. Just not bourgeois liberal democracy. The Chinese political system is based on whole-process people’s democracy, a form of consultative democracy. The local levels are directly elected, and then these representatives from around the country elect people to higher rungs, meaning any candidate at the top level must have worked their way up from the bottom and directly proved themselves. Also due to the nature of things the vast majority of representatives are among those directly elected by the people. You should research things before you just say things. And we’re very happy with our system. Even Harvard puts the approval rating around 95%.
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Perception != reality
Correct. Which makes it strange that you ignored everything I explained in this reply to you and just went back to the same checklist again.
Functional democracy needs: Opposition
No. That is the liberal electoral model, not the universal definition of democracy. Democracy means political authority comes from the people and that they participate in governance.
China’s system does this through whole-process people’s democracy. People directly elect local People’s Congress deputies, those bodies elect higher congresses, and the system scales upward to the National People’s Congress. Most representatives come from those directly elected levels. Officials advance after years working through those layers.
It is a different institutional design. Pretending it does not exist because it is not your familiar Western party circus is not an argument.
Free media
Again you should read Michael Parenti on “inventing reality.” In the West media is not magically independent. It is owned by a tiny number of massive corporations and billionaires. Those owners decide what gets covered, what narratives dominate, and what perspectives disappear.
Calling that “free” while pretending ownership power does not shape information is extremely naive.
Open voting / Free elections
China holds direct elections at the grassroots level where the majority of representatives originate. Higher levels are elected by the bodies below them. Again, a hierarchical representative system instead of a national campaign spectacle.
Different design. Not absence.
Same law for everyone
This one is especially funny coming from systems where billionaires routinely dodge consequences while corporations treat fines as operating costs.
Civil liberties
China prioritizes social stability and development as core measures of legitimacy. Over forty years it lifted hundreds of millions out of extreme poverty and massively expanded infrastructure, education, and living standards.
You may not like that model. Fine. But dismissing it with slogans while ignoring the outcomes is not serious.
As far as I’m aware
Yes, that part was obvious. Your entire argument is basically “it doesn’t look like my system therefore it isn’t democracy,” plus a “citation” from the eagle burger institute of goodness democracy index in your other comment made it abundantly clear.
Your awareness is painfully inadequate
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Perception != reality
Unless it’s your perception, of course
Edit: aaaaaaand the tankies show up.
You’re in our house, dummy.
They’re both bad…
Behold the peak of liberal geopolitical analysis
Yay politics in my memes again.
Lemmy.ml’s meme community allows political memes.
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Politics are in everything. The jobs available to you, personally, the education, quality of air, water, soil, wages, religion, atheism, brands to “choose” from, free speech zones, cars, public transit, where you live, how long you live… I can’t think of anything free from politics, even thoughts.
China is still the world’s leading polluter, in a time where those so-called “scientists” most definitely know what they’re doing contributing to global climate change like they are. No country is innocent, but making no attempt to not be first isn’t a defensible policy position.
China is the world’s biggest emitter of carbon gases**
Yeah, because it’s the second-largest population in the world and it’s producing & exporting the world’s products. You don’t get to de-industrialize, import your products, and then chastise your producers for using more energy than you, when they’re using that energy for you.
China is also the largest green energy user and producer of green energy technology, which it also exports.
The Economist: China’s clean-energy revolution will reshape markets and politics
ROFL. Stow the faux benevolence. It’s nonsense. Nobody is acting out of the goodness of their hearts in a capitalist transaction. They’re choosing to pollute instead of choosing to do other things. That’s not for anyone’s benefit but their own. The long-term consequences are so well-understood that only the extremely selfish are optimizing for the short-term.
China’s choice to build a national highway system instead of a national railway system wasn’t done with ecological concerns as the priority. They’re, again, choosing to pollute more purely because of the short-run benefit instead of doing something else that optimizes for humanity’s collective benefit.
So weird how the supposedly collectivist country isn’t acting in all of our best interest. Communism is an idea so good that they’ll silence you forever if you disagree.
Anything possible when you make shit up 🤷
Meanwhile in the real world:
ROFL. Stow the faux benevolence
Go back to Reddit
You’re losing
instead of
🤡
What no theory does to a mf
The PRC is leading the world in green energy production, electrification, and combatting desertification. They are the largest polluter because they are the largest producer, if you compare pollution based on consumption then the west is by far the larger polluter.
China is the one of the most populated country in the world. It produces about 30% of all manufactured goods many of which is consumed by rest of the world. So yeah there is going to be some pollution. If we take about on a per-person basis countries like the U.S. still emit more. Moreover, China is the largest investor in renewable energy and China alone accounted for roughly 40% of the world’s renewable energy investment.
China is still the world’s leading polluter
This is a rhetorical sleight of hand that conveniently glosses over the actual history of polluting nations.
not per capita though
meanwhile, wakko is still the world’s leading ignoramus
Is the lower photo real or AI? It looks like an album cover.
