Damn, that’s kinda a holy grail of game storefronts
Yeah, and it makes a ton of sense for Steam Deck/Machine/Frame
I remember seeing someone play a Steam Deck in an airport awhile ago and the 3D game had a HORRIBLE frame rate.
To the person playing to their credit they didn’t seem bothered but I couldn’t look away for a couple of seconds it was so shockingly bad. It made me think that a lot of people may have not really had the importance of framerate explained to them and what the relevant numbers are (film is 25, 30 is generally minimum for games and 60 is best).
Almost by definition we aren’t going to know those people but that is because if you are here you are probably a nerd, so this is good for all those blindspots. No one deserves a poor framerate if they don’t have to, unless you are Mitch McConnell.
A neat trick you can do with heavier games on … at least an OLED Deck (not sure if this is doable on the LCD version)…
You target 45 fps, min, lock the max frame rate at something like 45-50, then, use VRR set at a 1:2 ratio, so you get 45 fps at 90hz.
In many games, this generally, at least imo, ends you up with a smoother and potentially graphically higher quality than just targeting 60 fps / 60 hz.
You can also use Optiscaler / DeckyFrameGen to basically hack different/better ability to do upscaling and framegen into a fair number of games that otherwise don’t normally support it.
For instance, the OptiScaler people recently, successfully managed to get FSR 4 working on RX 6000 and 7000 cards, which also works on a Deck.
They essentially reverse engineered the previously leaked FSR4 driver to work on INT 8.
I didn’t think Deck supported VRR? If you have VRR you just cap your frame rate at 37 FPS or whatever and the screen syncs to that and refreshes at 37 Hz. What you’re describing sounds like old school vsync.
It doesn’t have VRR but it does have a configurable refresh rate. So e.g. if a game runs at a stable 40 fps you can run the display at 40 Hz too (or 80 Hz for the OLED model) and then you don’t get the uneven frame spacing you’d get from vsync with 40 fps on a 60 Hz display. With VRR the screen would also adjust to whatever frame rate the game produces even if it’s not stable, and the Deck doesn’t do that. But being able to get 40 fps with uniform frame timing instead of the 30 fps you’d have to use if the display was locked to 60 Hz (LCD model) or 90 Hz (OLED model) is a huge difference.
setsubyou got it more correct, my terminology is a bit off.
Yeah, you can lock the refresh rate at basically 15hz intervals (i think, last time i checked?), which is not true VRR, but, if you take the time to configure profiles and graphics settings per game, get stable and consistent frame rates, and then match the configurable refresh rate to that…
… this is sorta close to the … idea/performance of what true VRR is going for, it just doesn’t all work ‘automagically’.
I have an OLED, not an LCD, so yeah it looks like the LCD tops out at 60hz.
So with an LCD, you could aim for basically ‘always a bit above 30 fps’ and then 60hz, for that 1:2 ratio, and with an OLED, aim for ‘always a bit above 45 fps’, and then 90hz, for the same 1:2 ratio.
Its not the same, of course, as actually having 60 or 90 fps, but, as long as your fps never dips below the screen refresh rate, it looks/feels smoother than doing a 30fps or 45fps traditional vsync.
But of course, you’ll probably only need to do this for… significantly graphically heavy games… tons of less graphically intense / better optimized games will not need this level of tinkering min maxxing.
I don’t have a PC. My only way to play PC games is through a Deck. I’m at the point where I’m just happy to be able to play these games, period, let alone on the go.
I grew up playing RuneScape at 15 frames per second on the crappy school computers, so I’m used to it.
Yeah, I started gaming when games were bought on cassette tape. Pretty much anything is an improvement. Though TBF some stuff back then was pretty cool at the time.
I played first the Wing Commander + special operations with 8088XT 10MHz, 768kB RAM system. FPS was 20 when things were quiet, but when the shit hit the fan it was below 10.
Lowest I can go is 20fps, anything below is too nauseating. I learned to cope because I modded Skyrim to the point of no return, and I could only get max 20fps with a decent rig and a ton of optimising. Hair physics and 4k trees definitely worth it 👍
I’m happy you can appreciate frames that low. My fiance makes fun of me cuz I stress about anything below 60 lol granted my current PC doesn’t have these issues. Plus I used to game on laptops so I’m perfectly content with lower graphics for smooth frame rate.
in my case, i would play on potato graphics to get good fps, 60 is the minimum, 30 is an exception. i can FEEL it in my play if its below 100. like not only see it but it feels progressively bad the lower it is
Serious question: does the difference between 60 and 100 even matter if your monitor is capped to 60Hz?
sort of. but not to the extent that 60-100 gives. if you have a monitor capped at 60 and an fps at high, it does feel better, and it’s much more stable, and every refresh is all but guaranteed to have the most up to date frame.
if you are stuck at 60, check your monitor, and its cable. you can have a 120 refresh on the monitor, but if the hdmi cable is only rated for 60 the computer will only allow 60. had me doubting my self until i found it
It will ensure the frame being sent to your display is more recent and represent the game state the best.
It depends on the game. If the game doesn’t tie input handling to framerate, then yes, because your inputs will feel better.
Any game with motion needs 60fps at a bare minimum, with a consistent frametime. Although 90+ is preferable for an actual pleasant experience. 30fps is just abysmal for anything that isn’t FTL, Balatro or the like.
Idk man, I’ve enjoyed many a game at 30 fps. 60 is my general target but acting like it’s a minimum to have a fun time is ridiculous.
Its an opinion, I am used to a smooth experience, I play some fast paced games at 60 on my Steam Deck, its passable, but I’d obviously rather be having it run silky smooth on my PC.
If you have never really played games at higher than 30/60, then it’s impossible to understand.
If it’s an opinion, write it like it’s an opinion. You’re clearly not an idiot. Just say what you mean.
Yea it was a bit of a preach, I’ll admit.
I just think people should want higher standards, hardware is so powerful now, there’s no excuse for every game not to be targeting 120fps.
My display is 144hz and I’ve played quite a few games at that framerate. When you’re talking about smoothness, what you’re actually talking about is frame time. A consistent FPS at 30 is smooth, if there’s not inconsistent frametime and stutters.
Well framerate is defined by frametime. Though the average displayed framerate differs if the frametimes are not consistent.
What I am talking about with “smoothness” here is higher framerate, I am used to 120fps on most games, I normally lock my fps to that. You may not notice it going up, but you notice it a lot when going back down to 60.
Everyone has different standards and preferences, I’d rather not play any fast shooter at 60fps.
I can’t play FTL at anything less than 240 fps. Those life bars depleting from oxygen deprivation need to be buttery smooth
Ahahah, only play it at 4K 240FPS HDR, or its not a true experience!
I dont like that many are downvoting you for having higher standards for frame rate. It is fine that people enjoy games at lower frame rates with the hardware they have but I don’t think it makes sense to berate those that are striving for higher standards.
It’s fine, it’s always the case with opinions like this :D Downvoting will always be used as a disagree button, that’s never going to change.
I fly helicopters and airplanes in battlefield type games on multiplayer servers on my steam deck framelocked at 40 fps and do fine, I play shooters all the time at that framerate. I think if you get used to a higher framerate your brain just must lose the capability to fill in the blanks or something, it really doesnt bother me too much.
My brain sees it like distortion in a quadcopter fpv goggle feed or something lol. The issue is really rapidly changing framerate, the acceleration and deceleration is disorienting.
Its definitely something you get used to, I really dont enjoy low framerate anymore. If I forced myself to play it for hours and hours, maybe I would eventually be able to put up with it again. I can stomach 60 in most games. But ever since I’ve had access to high framerates, 30 and 60 just dont cut it for fast moving games.
You would hate my setup then. Nice pc with a 60 Hertz 1080p monitor.
shit, was that me? that sounds like me. cyberpunk runs pretty bad on the deck, bg3 is pretty choppy… but older games like DS1 and DS2 seem to run pretty smooth for me, but I’ve always been bad at noticing quality.
I didn’t get a prompt on my PC for this, but on my Steam Deck it asked me if I was okay with them collecting anonymous framerate data.
UE5 slop in shambles
So fucking tired of these chatgpt emoji every fucking where.
You are absolutely correct 🙌
Other users also mentioned this — let me explain why this works 🤫
👀So🤔fucking🤬tired🥱of🚨these🤑chatgpt🤓emoji🍑every📢fucking😵💫where.🤮
Linkedin is leaking
What, where?
The 🚨 and 👀 at the start and end of the first part of the post I guess.
That’s just how these types of „news“ accounts on twitter write, they did that before ChatGPT too
—
I like that this will put a spotlight on crappy engines and devs
Steam just can’t stop winning. The competition is so far behind they never even appeared in the rear view mirror to begin with
Do they exclude nvidia’s bullshit
fake”AI generated” frames?Hopefully they list FG framerate and raw FPS, the overlay counter can already distinguish between them
That’s a great idea. I wonder if it will make developers consider optimizing their games more.
Depends if Valve also require disclosure if “frame-generation” was used in the benchmark.
Very easy to claim a game runs at 4K 60fps when it’s actually 720p 30fps with blurry up-scaled frames in-between.
I highly suspect it’ll lead to less than serious developers finding a way to trick this system.
Valve HATES this ONE TRICK to DOUBLE YOUR FPS INSTANTLY!
- Render scene to texture
- Copy texture to frame buffer, present it, wait for vblank (x2)
- Repeat from step 1.
Purely theoretically, it is possible to implement this… But there are a lot of factors that contribute to changes.
It’s harder than they think.
Neat. It’s going to be interesting how they will solve the issue of different quality settings - I don’t care about FPS at “ultra” settings, usually it’s more important how the FPS are at low settings before you have to take desperate measures like turning down the resolution, completely turning off antialiasing, using upscaling etc. that have an extremely negative effect on graphics fidelity.
Also, two games running at an average of 60FPS might give very different experiences depending on how consistent the FPS are.
They may be able say something like “50% or users run the game at 30fps, 40% at 40fps” or something like that, where you can guess about different settings people are running at.
The biggest thing is just knowing whether it’s possible to run the game on your hardware at the minimum acceptable fps. If average fps for a steam deck game is 25, you know it doesn’t run well. If a significant number of deck users are able to average a higher fps than 30 (40-60), you know the deck can run it decently and you’ll have options besides running everything on the lowest setting.
Yeah but the Deck will be really interesting for this, since I play most of my games at 30fps with 7TDP when the Deck could perform better.
I guess, people doing what I do should not be taken into account…
Accounting for patches will also be interesting, especially for newer games that are still working their way towards a decent state.
I hope that it take in account the game versions, eg: they say that my hardware will make 60 fps in the 1.2 version, and then when the 1.3 came out they will make me know that it will run at 50 fps instead of telling me that the game will run at 120 fps because they take in account older version where the game had less laggy stuff
They’re gonna have to take into account for programs like lsfg-vk, Decky-framegen and others that increase frame rates. Easy to do on the deck though just ignore reports from games that have the programs launch option. Cant do that with my laptop though as lsfg-vk just grabs the process by name.
Thinking about it, they’ll probably use a law of large numbers and average out similar specs.
It will probably reveal which crowd is bigger: the high frame rate crowd or the high quality crowd.
I suspect that will shake out with enough data. And I bet they can cross-estimate based on performance of various hardware configs across games too.
If they end up having a message on some games that says “not enough data yet.” Or similar, you’ll know they need a good sized volume to extrapolate average performance.
I’m sure they have considered all of this and the estimates will be conservative and rages/performance windows, not “we estimate this title will run at 47.5 fps on your rig.”
Frame generation is surely on their mind too.
Yes, I got a prompt on Steam Deck asking if they could collect anonymised FPS data from my games !
I said no, but there will be enough people who say yes to collect that data reliably.
Steam on a Linux machine the only thing were I opt in to the anonymous data collection.
okay, that takes care of fps, but what about spf?
Should be labeled clearly on the outside of the container of suncream.
Only available on laptop models ans handhelds. They assume you aren’t setting up your desktop outside
challenge accepted
What settings would they use for those FPS numbers? Most importantly, does it count Nvidia’s generated frames in that number?
Steam’s fps overlay can show base frames and generated frames separately, so I’m assuming they’ll be able to only show base frames.
This is one of those things that after a few years, is going to become a heavyweight feature that every other storefront should have been working to have but for some reason haven’t started yet like Steam Input or WINE/Proton/Linux integration. I imagine in the near future retro-handhelds mostly abandoning Android for Linux and basing their specs and marketing around some analytics done on Steam games and the crowd-sourced game performance data. PS4 is in its 13th year. Blink and next thing you know you’ll be seeing cheap mini handhelds advertising playing vintage PS4 era video games on your bought from AliExpress PSP sized retro gaming handheld. It’ll be advertised like 98% of games released before 2020 have been found to run well on hardware as powerful as this gaming device (*according to Steam user data)
feel like this is ultimately bad because it just means they’ll make it harder to refund
Should we remove hardware requirements or reviews, because then you could argue you weren’t informed about the game not being your type? Are game demos bad?
Informing the customer being bad sounds backwards. This could only backfire if the fps prediction is wrong, and I still think for most people this would a positive, I wanted a feature like this.
i’m saying they could easily use it as an excuse to eliminate customer service and refunds because game stores and game companies are generally shitty and anti consumer.
Again, reviews? Game demos? Those are already excuses if they wanted to (and could in the first place, since refunds are probably required by law, as the other reply). This fps prediction IS customer service.
i mean. i like steam a lot, but the return window was not adopted because steam thought it was fair, but mainly because they were being forced to by an australian law suit. so i don’t think this is an immediate fear
The 2 hour of gameplay / 2 week ownership refund window isn’t going anywhere, which is where almost all refunds happen.
the refund is automatic with no questions asked.
lmao very curious to see what steam thinks of my unnatural unholy abomination of a setup
